Q: Are you saying now that the call as far as it regards the representation of Lee Harvey Oswald is a figment of your imagination?
A: I have tried to say that consistently, and nobody ever gave me a chance.
Q: No one ever gave you a chance?
A: Right. Read the questions and answers in everything you have got there; you won't find one.
Q: How many times did you testify before the Orleans Parish Grand Jury?
A: Three times.
Q: Did you tell them it was a figment of your imagination?
A: No.
Q: Did you consider that an adequate chance?
A: At that time all I was concerned about was getting out of a mess that I didn't belong in. I cannot give you any explanation as to why. All I knew is I was walking in a trap.
Q: Did you have a chance before the Warren Commission?
A: They never gave me a second bite at the apple.
Q: What?
A: They never gave me a second bite at the apple.
Q: You don't think they presumed you told the truth at the first bite?
A: I don't think they believed anything other than Harvey Oswald might have been in the office. That is my appreciation of their evaluation of my testimony. I don't even know how they took the time and money to send somebody down to interview me.
MR. ALCOCK: May I have just a moment, Your Honor?
(There was a brief pause in the proceedings.)
BY MR. ALCOCK:
Q: Didn't Mr. Liebeler during the course of -- and I am referring to of your
Warren Commission testimoney -- didn't Mr. Liebeler actually ask you whether or not
this was a figment of your imagination? Do you have a copy up there?
A: I don't recall, and it is a waste of time to look at it; if it is in there, read it verbatim, and if he did, he did.
Q: Do you recall what you responded?
A: No, but the answer would be in there.
Q: Do you recall saying the Feebees tried to put it that way?
A: Look, I think you are talking out of context.
Q: All right. Look at it.
A: What page?
Q: 334.
A: I can't see the copy, Man!
THE COURT: Would you indicate on the page, Mr. Alcock?
MR. ALCOCK: Yes, it is about midway down, the long question about the middle of the page. "Do you have a picture in your mind of Clay Bertrand" is where it starts.
THE COURT: I see, I see.
A: I said it. I can explain it. You want the explanation?
Q: Yes, let's have the explanation.
A: I had started it and couldn't quit.
Q: Couldn't quit what?
A: Continuing the cover name.
Q: Why didn't you tell them Gene Davis was the man?
A: I don't know, I just decided I wouldn't get Gene Davis involved, so I made a mistake. I made an error.
Q: You mean you committed perjury?
A: That is your impression of it.
Q: Were you under oath at the time?
A: The Federals are the only ones can charge me with perjury, no one else.
Q: Were you under oath at this time?
A: Yes.
Q: On the top of -- do you have that?
A: Yes.
Q: The question by Mr. Liebeler:
"Q: Now, before you ran into Clay Bertrand in the street on this day, did you have a notion in your mind what he looked like?
Your answer: "I had seen him before one time to recognize him."
Was that a true answer or a false answer?
A: That is carrying on the farce.
Q: That is lying some more? Right?
A: If you want to call it that you can; I say I am carrying on my cover. I started something. Nobody would give me the information I started with, and it whiplashed. I elected in my judgment not to involve a person who has absolutely nothing to do with Kennedy, in no way, shape or form, and I goot hooked with it. I elected to stick with it, and here I sit.
Q: How do you know this, Mr. Andrews, that he had nothing to do with the assassination of President Kennedy?
A: Gene Davis?
Q: How do you know that?
A: Just like I know you, Alcock, you had nothing to do with it either.
Q: But you didn't give my name, did you?
A: No.
(LAUGHTER)
Q: Down further: "When you saw him that day he appeared to you as he had before when you recognized him?
"Answer: He hadn't, hasn't changed any in appearance I don't think, maybe a little fatter, maybe a little skinnier."
A: This is a page after page of bull.
Q: In other words, page after page after page of lies?
A: If you want to call them that, that is your privilege.
Q: You were under oath the entire time? Is that correct?
A: That is correct.
Q: And you knew --
A: My explanation of it is that I had elected not to involve an innocent person in a serious matter such as this. I did the best I could with what I had, and here I sit.
Q: Because you chose to lie?
A: That may well be.
THE COURT: Mr. Alcock, would yu permit a question?
MR. ALCOCK: Yes, Your Honor.
BY THE COURT:
Q: Where did you ever get the name of Clay Bertrand in your mind?
A: The only way I can explain it, Judge, is I tried during the time of Regis Kennedy to figure out some way to associate Gene Davis' phone call with what I had told Regis Kennedy. When it dawned on me that they would pounce on this man and cause an investigation -- and I couldn't think of Clay to save my life, the only thing I could remember was Bertrand -- I don't recall how long it took for me to put the two together, and I remembered the fag wedding reception, Big Joe introducing me to a man who I knew as Gene Davis, as Clay Bertrand, casually, and that is how I put the two together as a cover to remember what I was saying in relationship to the phone call.
Q: Not Joe Brown or Charlie Smith? Clay Bertrand?
A: Of all names to pick, I picked that one.
THE BAILIFF: Order, please!
BY MR. ALCOCK:
Q: In other words, you went back in your mind 13 years to recall that name on this occasion?
Is that correct?
A: It wasn't easy.
Q: I know it wasn't easy, but --
THE BAILIFF: Order, please!
BY MR. ALCOCK:
Q: -- you couldn't have been too delirious.
A: Well, I am usually shot, but in fumbling around -- and I remember I had to fumble around, I couldn't quite zero it in, it took me a while to do it, and I am capable of doing it faster than I did it.
THE COURT: Let me ask one other question.
BY THE COURT:
Q: Had you ever met anybody in your life by that name?
A: Only this introduction. It was casual, at the reception. Other than that, the answer is no.
BY MR. ALCOCK:
Q: Now, isn't it a fact you called the Secret Service and the F.B.I. on that occasion?
A: Positively.
Q: Why did you call them if all Gene Davis talked about was an automobile?
A: To tell them that Lee Harvey Oswald was in New Orleans. In my judgment it would save him time checking him out in Dallas, to let them know immediately he was here during the period ofthe last week of April until I lost track of him.
Q: Who informed you that Lee Harvey Oswald had or had not been charged with the assassination?
A: I don't know whether or not he was charged with the assassination at that time.
Q: Well, how did you know Lee Harvey Oswald was even critical or interesting at that time?
A: Out of TV in my room.
Q: That is just what I asked you. Did his name appear on television?
A: I saw him when he shot this guy Ruby (sic).
Q: That was Sunday?
A: The 24th.
THE COURT: Wait a minute. Ruby shot Oswald, not Oswald shooting Ruby.
THE BAILIFF: Order in the Court!
THE WITNESS: I can't give you any explanation, Mr. Alcock. Once you make a fool out of yourself, that is it, you are stuck with it.