THE COURT: I have made a ruling wherein I will permit the State to force the witness to give an answer to questions which go into detail, because of the answers given by Mr. Andrews on his direct examination and for my reasons which I have cited out of the presence of the Jury. I will ask at this moment that they be reinserted in the record at this time.
(Whereupon, the Court's reasons for ruling are here again made part of the record by reference.)
THE COURT: You may take your bill of exceptions.
MR. BARRY: At this time the witness would reserve a bill of exceptions to the ruling of Your Honor, making a part thereof the ruling of Your Honor, the reasons, the questions propounded to the witness, the objection of the witness, and all other parts relevant thereof of the record.
THE COURT: I would in an abundance (of precaution) say all questions and answers put to Mr. Andrews be made part of your bill.
MR. BARRY: Right.
THE COURT: You may proceed, Mr. Alcock.
BY MR. ALCOCK:
Q: Mr. Andrews, when you received this telephone call on November 23, 1963, did you have an image in your mind as to who the person was who identified himself on that
occasion?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you know him by any other name than Clay Bertrand?
A: Gene Davis.
Q: Gene Davis?
A: Yes.
Q: How long have you known Mr. Davis?
A: How many years I don't recall, quite some time.
Q: Did you meet Mr. Davis originally at this fag wedding as you testified?
A: No.
Q: You did not meet him at the fag wedding?
A: No. I was introduced to him at this fag wedding, I did not meet him there.
Q: You had known him prior to the wedding?
A: Yes.
Q: About how long prior to the wedding had you first met him?
A: Six months, a year.
Q: Was he your client at the time?
A: No. I wasn't out of law school then, I was an undergraduate going to law school.
Q: I see. Did you have occasion during this period right after you met the man you identify as Clay Bertrand, to see him very often?
A: I have never identified Gene Davis, to my knowledge, as Clay Bertrand. I have used the words "Clay Bertrand" as a cover to mentioning Gene Davis. I have never identified him as Clay Bertrand, to my knowledge.
Q: Oh, I see. This is the cover that you gave the FBI on the 23rd or 24th, whenever they interviewed you?
A: As I recall, yes.
Q: Was the voice that you recognized on the phone that of Gene Davis? Is that your testimony?
A: That is correct. This is in 1963. I had been out of law school since '51, and I had had occasions to represent Mr. Davis and talk to him, and, as most lawyers, you get accustomed to your clients' voice when they call you.
Q: I see. Well, prior to the time that you received this telephone call allegedly from Mr. Davis, did you have occasion to see him often prior to that? Was he your client prior to that?
A: I have served Gene Davis, yes, on matters. I would say yes, he was a client.
Q: Did you ever see him with Lee Harvey Oswald?
A: No.
Q: Is there any reason why you didn't tell the F.B.I. when they were seeking the identity of the man you said was Clay Bertrand?
A: At the time I was under the influence of opiates and sedation. I did not have any knowledge they were seeking Clay Bertrand until maybe three, four days later, if I was aware of it then.
Q: Well, at that time did you notify the Federal Bureau of Investigation?
A: No.
Q: Did you ever notify the Federal Bureau of Investigation?
A: Formally?
Q: Formally.
A: No, I think I did informally but it was after this investigation took place, not prior, informally.
Q: Can you recall the last time you had seen this man that you identify as Clay Bertrand prior to going into the hospital?
A: I never have identified anybody as Clay Bertrand, I have used Clay Bertrand as a cover name for Gene Davis.
Q: All right. Well, Gene Davis. When was the last time you saw Gene Davis prior to going into the hospital in November of 1963?
A: I would have to guess. About two weeks before I went into the hospital.
Q: So then when you told the Warren Commission under oath that you hadn't seen him in six months, you were telling a lie?
A: I believed what I told them at that time. You have to take -- May I explain my answer, Judge?
THE COURT: Certainly.
BY MR. ALCOCK:
Q: Certainly.
A: At the time Mr. Liebeler was questioning me, it is just as it is in the courtroom, rapid fire. It was an informal meeting, I didn't place to much importance to why an insignificant person like myself would even be called. I answered the best I could at that time. I didn't deliberately lie, I might have overloaded my mouth with the importance of being a witness in the front of the Warren Report, but other than that I didn't deliberately lie. I think the only explanation I can give you is that my mouth went ahead of my brain.
Q: Do you recall telling Mr. Liebeler that you saw Clay Bertrand six weeks prior to the time that he questioned you?
A: Well, I figured that wasn't material. You can call it a lie if you want, I call it huffing and puffing.
Q: Huffing and puffing under oath?
A: Bull session.
Q: Do you recall making that statement under oath?
A: I don't particularly recall it, but I have noted that it is in the report and I assume I must have made it.
Q: That wasn't correct, was it?
A: No.
Q: Do you recall telling the agents of the F.B.I. that Gene Davis or the man that allegedly called you, was about 6'1 or 6'2 inches tall?
A: I have no recollection whatever of talking to the F.B.I. That is a long time ago. I have never been able to get the field notes that the agents took. They say there were two agents there, I only remember one.
Q: Who is the one you remember -- Regis Kennedy?
A: Regis Kennedy, Mr. Kennedy.
Q: You testified earlier that Mr. Kennedy had attempted to locate this Clay Bertrand, is that correct, as a result of the conversation with you?
A: This is what I gathered. I was still under sedation, still using oxygen then I believe. This is vague, way off in the distance. He appeared before me like a myth. I remember answering questions, I don't remember what they were. On the Thursday the only thing that I can recall is could I give him any better information, and I told him, no, call your man up, do whatever you want. If you want to think that I am a squirrel or I am not, be my guest, I cannot help you.
Q: And you didn't chose to help the F.B.I. on that occasion by giving them the name of Gene Davis?
A: I didn't chose to implicate an innocent man, Gene Davis, in something that I couldn't even recall what I said, all I was aware of was the importance, that it came after. It is just like I explained on Direct Examination, this man Gene Davis, he makes the phone call. When the pressure and not force, these were very nice -- I don't understand, I have never been treated anything other than nice by the F.B.I., but all of a sudden it dawned on me that as result of my calling those people I could involve an innocent party into a whole lot of humbug. At that time in the hospital under sedation I elected a course that I have never been able to get away from. I either get indicted or I get charged, or people interpret it different, and all it is is just like I said, this is Gene Davis, I didn't want to get him involved. I started it and it has been whiplashing ever since, I can't stop it.
Q: You say an innocent man. This man called you on behalf of Lee Harvey Oswald?
A: No, it didn't go like that. I don't recall what I told Regis Kennedy, but I know, I am positive that that was not the purpose of the phone call. I sat back -- and I have have many a time to try and try and to reconstruct -- the best that I can reconstruct was that Gene Davis called me to pass an act of sale for two of the kids while I was in the hospital, what time Saturday I don't know. I told him that I was sick in the hospital, if he could get my seal out of the office I would pass the act there. Naturally that was an important thing to everybody. I don't know whether I suggested -- Man, I would be famous if I could go to Dallas and defend Lee Harvey Oswald, whoever gets that job is going to be a famous lawyer, or whether in a conversation it came about. Nobody said it per se as everybody believed. I think I might have said it before Mr. Liebeler, but I didn't have the benefit as I have -- at each time I never can remember, everybody tells me what I said, they got it down in writing but they never show me, and it whiplashed.
Q: Do you mean to tell me this time you are now telling this Court under oath that no one called you on behalf of the representation of Lee Harvey Oswald in Dallas?
A: Per se my answer is yes, no one called me to say that. The phone call I received was a local call from Gene Davis involving two people who were going to sell an automobile and they wanted thetitle notarized and a bill of sale notarized.
Q: An automobile? I thought it was an act of sale you were talking about.
A: That is an act of sale, a movable passing from one person to another.
Q: Why is it you called Monk Zelden on Sunday then and asked if he wanted to go to Dallas?
A: No explanation. Don't forget I am in the hospital sick, I might have believed it my- self or thought after a while I was retained there, so I called Monk. I would like to be famous too, other than as a perjurer.
THE BAILIFF: Order in the Court!
Q: That is going to be difficult.
A: C'est la vie.