SALVATORE PANZECA, being called by the Defense on traverse of the predicate, being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. DYMOND:
Q: You are Mr. Salvatore Panzeca?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Mr. Panzeca, are you presently a practicing attorney here in New Orleans?
A: Yes.
Q: How long have you been engaged in practice?
A: Since 1959, June.
Q: Are you associated with the firm of Racivitch & Wegmann of which Mr. William Wegmann is a partner?
A: Yes, I am.
Q: Going back to March 1, 1967, Mr. Panzeca, were you called upon to represent Mr. Clay Shaw in any capacity?
A: Yes, I was.
Q: How were you recalled upon, sir? Who called you?
A: Mr. Shaw himself called, sometime before 3:00 p.m. on that afternoon.
Q: Now, upon receiving this call, what did you do, Mr. Panzeca?
A: Well, I jumped in a taxi and I came down here to the Criminal Courts Building.
Q: Did you see Mr. Shaw when you got here?
A: Yes, I did. I guess I didn't arrive here until sometime around 3:15, 3:30, and -- it must have been around 3:30 when I arrived.
Q: And where was Mr. Shaw when you first saw him?
A: As I recall, Mr. Shaw was in an office off from the main lobby of the District Attorney's office, and I think that office at that time was being used by Mr. Sciambra as his office.
Q: Now, at the time that you saw Mr. Shaw, did you give him any legal advice?
A: Yes, sir, I did. I told him specifically not to speak to anyone at all about anything, I told him that he shouldn't even tell people hello or good-bye. In fact, I even specifically told him that if he had any questions about anything to direct them only to me.
Q: Did you tell him anything about answering questions?
A: Absolutely, I told him not to answer any questions from anybody.
Q: Did you tell him anything about making statements?
A: I certainly did, I told him, in fact, that even if he had to go to the dressing room that he should ask me and not anyone else.
Q: Did you make known to any member of the District Attorney's Office the fact that you did not want Mr. Shaw to make any statements or be questioned?
A: That is correct. I told Mr. Sciambra, who was the Assistant District Attorney there at that time, I told Mr. Ivon and Mr. Loisel, who were placed at the doorway. One was -- I think one was in the office where Mr. Shaw was located, and the other gentleman was perhaps right outside or right in the doorway -- they were guarding Mr. Shaw -- and I specifically told both of these gentleman that Mr. Shaw was not to be questioned and that he was not going to answer any questions about anything.
MR. DYMOND: We tender the witness.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. ALCOCK:
Q: Mr. Panzeca, is it correct that you talked on the telephone to Mr. Sciambra before
you came down to the District Attorney's Office?
A: That is correct.
Q: Isn't it a fact that Mr. Sciambra advised you to come down and consult with your client?
A: Mr. Shaw was talking to me on the telephone, and evidently Mr. Sciambra heard Mr. Shaw mention my name. Mr. Shaw at first was trying to reach Mr. Wegmann and ended up with me. Then all of a sudden Mr. Sciambra was on the phone and I did speak to Mr. Sciambra, and I asked him what was this about, and he said, "Sal, I think you had better get down here. We have Mr. Shaw and we would like to have him represented, if you are going to represent him." Of course I said I was coming right down.
Q: Now, when you arrived, Mr. Panzeca, did you have any difficulty in speaking with your client?
A: Only that I was very suspicious that the room was bugged, just as Mr. Wegmann has told you.
Q: Other than that, did any member of the District Attorney's Staff deny you the right to talk with your client?
A: No, I was not denied the right to speak to him, but it was not in a circumstance in which I thought I could question him freely and without anyone overhearing. There were people all over.
Q: Then I take it you did advise him of his Constitutional rights? Is that correct?
A: Well, if by "Constitutional rights" you mean he has a right not to make a statement --
Q: Right.
A: -- I did advise him of that. Now, if you go up and down the Constitution, no, I didn't go up and down it.
Q: Now, when Mr. Wegmann arrived did you and he have a conversation between yourself, Mr. Wegmann and the Defendant?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: And did you again advise him of his rights?
A: Well, once again we had a difficult time in communicating. I advised Mr. Wegmann as I had advised Mr. Shaw, that I was afraid that the room and the area that we were in was bugged, and I told them that I don't think we should talk about anything except arrangements to make bail. That was all we really discussed. In fact, my original communications with Mr. Shaw were conducted on a pad that I had, I would write a question and he would write an answer. I didn't even want to talk, and I kept the papers and put them in my pocket.
Q: I see. Do you still have those papers?
A: No, I don't.
Q: Where are they?
A: I probably destroyed them.
Q: Now, did you see any physical evidence of any sound recording device?
A: No. I didn't really make a search, I was just suspect that this was going on. I don't know when a room is bugged if I would find it if I looked at it.
Q: In other words, you have no evidence of that, it is just something that you surmised or feared? Would that be correct?
A: I thought it was taking the proper precautions.
Q: Did you ride over to the Central Lockup with Mr. Shaw?
A: No, I did not, I left with you, Mr. Alcock, to go to Mr. Shaw's residence.
Q: I see. When was the last time that you saw the Defendant?
A: Pardon?
Q: When was the last time that night that you saw the Defendant?
A: If I recall correctly -- and I think I do -- we left the District Attorney's Office sort of in a wedge formation to get through the crowd and the Press. I got off the elevator at that time I think with you and Mr. Burnes, and I think the last time I saw Mr. Shaw that night was when he got into an automobile in the basement of this building.
Q: Now, Mr. Panzeca, after you had instructed or requested Mr. Sciambra, Mr. Ivon and Mr. Loisel not to question the Defendant any further, did they, to your knowledge, disregard your instructions?
A: No. I know that Mr. Ivon and Mr. Loisel did not speak to Mr. Shaw. Now, I was moving about, but I didn't request that they not do this, I instructed them not to do this.
Q: Well, do you know of any violation of your instructions?
A: No.
MR. ALCOCK: No further questions.
MR. DYMOND: That is all.
(Witness excused.)
MR. DYMOND: If the Court please, at this time we would like to put Mr. Shaw on the stand for the limited purpose of traversing the admissibility of this alleged statement.
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