AFTER THE RECESS:
THE COURT:
All right. You may proceed with the witness.
BY MR. ALCOCK:
Q: Mr. Andrews, I am going to give you a transcript of your testimony before the
Orleans Parish Grand Jury on March 16, 1967, and ask that you read just these few questions and answers, and then I will ask you questions relative to it.
A: All right.
Q: Now, have you had occasion to read those questions --
A: Yes, sir.
Q: -- and answers by you. The question is:
"Question: How would you contact Clay Bertrand?"
You answer: "I don't recall ever getting in contact with him. If you want to know how I would do it, I would send word through one of the people in the gay circles.
"Question: In other words, if Bertrand said to you on the telephone he was good for the retainer or the fee, you had no way to find Clay Bertrand in the phone book, address, or by telephone? Is that correct?
"Answer: Yes, that is right."
Now, is that true or is that a lie?
A: All right. Take your first question first.
A: All right. The first question:
"And how would you contact Clay Bertrand?
"Answer: I don't recall ever getting in contact with him."
A: I would never call Gene Davis who I used the name Clay Bertrand as a cover for.
Q: In other words, that is your answer to that question?
A: Yes. I didn't hustle business, the guy called me. Now I am talking about Gene Davis there.
Q: But this is the man that you have in your mind as Clay Bertrand?
A: Right, and Clay Bertrand is his cover name, and I am keeping on. I am stuck, I am in a whiplash and there ain't no way to get off the hook.
Q: Well, since he was your client, I take it this is not completely true then, is it?
A: Read it back again.
Q: All right. "Question: How would you contact Clay Bertrand?
"Answer: I don't recall ever getting in contact with him."
Now, since he was your client, Gene Davis, this is obviously a lie, isn't it?
A: No. I don't hustle business and I don't call clients unless it is in relationship to business that they have employed me for. In no way, shape or form could that be a lie.
Q: You never contacted Gene Davis at all?
A: Yes, but in relationship to business that I would be doing with him as a client.
Q: Now going to the bottom of the page:
"Now, have you ever seen Clay Bertrand?"
A: No, you asked me another question to look at, and I want to answer it. Read it.
Q: All right. Let's see.
"Question: In other words, if Bertrand said to you on the phone he was good for the retainer or the fee, you had no way to find Bertrand in the phone book, address or by telephone? Is that correct?
"Answer: Yes, that is right."
A: When Gene Davis guaranteed a fee, it is better than the Bank of England, right on the line.
THE COURT: He didn't ask you that. Why don't you pay attention to the question?
BY MR. ALCOCK:
Q: All right.
"Q: In other words, if Bertrand said to you on the telephone he was good for the retainer or the fee, you had no way to find Clay Bertrand in the phone book, address or by telephone? Is that correct?"
And your answer: "A: It was a silent phone number that I don't have, and I would either go past where he was or send somebody that I knew to contact him.
"Q: You knew where he was?
"A: I know where his joint is at, yes."
A: You are asking me that in 27 in relation to something that happened in '63. Remember that, too.
Q: 27? What are you talking about?
A: In '67. Is that the date you are asking me that question?
Q: 1967, right.
A: You are asking me something that happened in 1963. In 1963 Gene Davis did not have a phone. I forget where Gene Davis was employed. I had a rough idea of where he lived, and he would call me or I would send somebody that I knew to cut in to him, so the answer there would be true with the exception Clay Bertrand is the cover for Gene Davis.
Q: In other words, when you are testifying this entire time before the Grand Jury, every time you mentioned the name Clay Bertrand, you are talking about Gene Davis? Right?
A: That is correct.
Q: Now the question was: "Q: Now, have you ever seen Clay Bertrand?"
That was the question and your response was: "A: As I recall, I saw him twice." Now you are thinking of Gene Davis in this question?
A: No, no. I don't know. At that time when they mean have I seen the man, this is my guess. I don't know. It depends on how you are going to interpret that out of context. I can't help you there.
Q: I am not interpreting out of context. I will let you read it.
A: Read the question, please.
Q: The question is:
"Q: Have you ever seen Clay Bertrand?"
That is the question, "Have you ever seen Clay Bertrand?"
And your response is: "A: As I can recall, I saw him twice."
Now, is that true or false?
A: I have never known a Clay Bertrand. Well, let me answer your question. It has to be a conflicting statement.
Q: It has to be another lie?
A: Well, call it what you want. Now I will explain it. Clay Bertrand is a figment of my imagination, or whatever you want to call it. It is a cover name that I used, I assume November 25, 1963, when I was interrogated by Regis Kennedy, and I am continuing the fiasco ever since up until now.
Q: Why did you say you had seen him twice?
A: I don't know why. I have no explanation for it.
Q: Do you have an explanation for any of this testimony, other than this cover story you have told us about?
MR. DYMOND: Your Honor, we object to the question based upon the testimony in general. If he wants to ask him to explain specifically --
THE WITNESS: Yes, I can explain that, Mr. Dymond.
THE COURT: Wait a second. What was your last question, Mr. Alcock?
MR. ALCOCK: I just asked him whether or not this was merely a matter of his cover story, is the entire thing a matter of his cover story.
MR. DYMOND: That wasn't the question I objected to, I objected to the question, do you have an explanation for any of this testimony?
THE COURT: I think you should rephrase the question.
BY MR. ALCOCK:
Q: When you testified before the Grand Jury on the occasions on which you did not identify Gene Davis, did you continue in your cover identity of Gene Davis when asked about Clay Bertrand?
A: I went back June 28, 1967, if that is the day, to straighten the testimony out. I never got a chance to straighten it out, because in the questions that were propounded to me, that is the last time I went before them, the one that I got indicted on. I was hemmed in between a sworn Warren Commission Report and questions that were propounded to me. The answers, they weren't made under oath, they were outside statements and they conflicted with the Warren Report, and I did the best I could with what I had.
Q: My question is, if you used the cover the entire time of Clay Bertrand before the Grand Jury and under oath with the exception of the last time that you appeared before the Grand Jury.
A: I can't answer that question. I did the best I could with what I had.
Q: With your cover story?
A: I told the DA's office that Clay Bertrand wasn't Clay Shaw before I went there, but nobody believed me.
Q: Did you continue to say before the Grand Jury before the last time, that you did not know who Clay Bertrand was?
A: No, I think if that is the last time I went there --
Q: No. I say before the last time.
A: Right.
MR. ALCOCK: No further questions.
MR. DYMOND: No questions.
(Witness Excused.)
C E R T I F I C A T E
I, the undersigned, Helen R. Dietrich, do hereby certify:
That the above and foregoing (161 pages of typewritten matter) is a true and correct transcription of the stenographic notes of the proceedings had herein, the same being the testimony of Dean A. Andrews, Jr., from the proceedings in open Court on February 25, 1969 and taken down by Paul W. Williams and the undersigned, and transcribed under our supervision, on the day and date heretofore noted.
New Orleans, Louisiana, this 3rd day of March, 1969.
/s/ Helen R. Dietrich
HELEN R. DIETRICH,
REPORTER