CRIMINAL COURT FOR THE PARISH OF ORLEANS
STATE OF LOUISIANA
NO. M-703
CLAY L. SHAW, ARRESTEE
PART 1 - PAGES 1-172
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Transcript of proceedings had in connection with Preliminary Hearing in the above numbered and entitled cause taken on March 14th, March 15th, March 16th and March 17th, 1967.
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HONORABLE BERNARD J. BAGERT
HONORABLE MALCOLM V. O'HARA
HONORABLE MATTHEW S. BRANIFF
JUDGES PRESIDING
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APPEARANCES:
JIM GARRISON, ESQ.
[CHARLES WARD, ESQ.]
ALVIN V. OSER, ESQ.
JAMES L. ALCOCK, ESQ.
MICHAEL L. KARMAZIN, ESQ
REPRESENTING THE STATE OF LOUISIANA.
F. IRVIN DYMOND
WILLIAM J. WEGMANN, ESQ.
EDWARD F. WEGMANN, ESQ.
REPRESENTING CLAY L. SHAW, ARRESTEE.
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REPORTED BY:
JULIAN J. LEVEY, Official Court Reporter
PATRICIA CHAMPAGNE, Official Court Reporter
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BY JUDGE BAGERT:
Q. Is the State ready?
BY MR. WARD:
The State is ready.
BY JUDGE BAGERT:
Is the Defense ready?
BY MR. DYMOND:
We're ready, Your Honor.
BY JUDGE BAGERT:
Proceed.
BY MR. WARD:
Your Honor, the State has five witnesses which are available to testify, and they are Frank Hayward, Peter Schuster, John Reilly, Dr. Nicholas Chetta and Dr. Esmond Fatter. Now, these witnesses are outside and are available, and we ask the Court to bring these witnesses in and put them under the rule of subpoena and we further ask that the sequestration of witnesses be enforced, both as to State witnesses and as to the Defense. However, Dr. Chetta and Dr. Fatter, these are experts who will testify for the State and we ask that the Court exercise its discretion and allow these two witnesses to remain in the courtroom.
BY THE COURT:
Call all the witnesses in.
BY MR. DYMOND:
At this time, we would like to join in the motion for sequestration of the witnesses.
BY JUDGE BRANIFF:
Do you have any witnesses?
BY MR. DYMOND:
And state that we have no witnesses in the courtroom. With respect to the experts, as long as their testimony is confined to expert testimony and they are not factual witnesses, we have no objection to their remaining in the courtroom.
BY JUDGE BAGERT:
Now, do you have any witnesses that you want to put under subpoena, gentlemen?
BY MR. DYMOND:
Not at this time.
BY MR. WARD:
We have three additional witnesses. Mr. Reilly is outside; Dr. Chetta and Dr. Fatter have come into the courtroom.
BY JUDGE BAGERT:
Mr. Ward, we all know Dr. Chetta and we all know Dr. Fatter. Who are these other witnesses?
BY MR. WARD:
Detective Frank Hayward and Officer Peter Schuster of the Coroner's Office and Mr. John Reilly of the Bureau of Identification.
BY JUDGE BAGERT:
All right. Now, all of you gentlemen are under the rule. Don't discuss your testimony with anybody, nor even among yourselves. You may speak to your lawyers and you are limited to that. Don't disclose your testimony to anybody. Stay outside and don't discuss the case. Now, as I understand it, the attorneys from both sides will join in an exception to the rule with reference to the physicians, is that right?
BY MR. DYMOND:
Provided they don't testify as to facts other than as expert witnesses, Judge.
BY MR. WARD:
They will not testify as to any facts or as to the veracity of witnesses.
BY JUDGE BAGERT:
All right. You three gentlemen are placed under the rule. Dr. Chetta and Dr. Fatter, see if we can find a chair for you.
BY MR. WARD:
Your Honor, I would like to clarify the stipulation that they will not testify to any facts of their own knowledge in this case.
BY JUDGE BAGERT:
Call the first witness.
DETECTIVE FRANK HAYWARD, a witness for the State, having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
* * * DIRECT EXAMINATION * * *
BY MR. OSER:
Q. State your name, please.
A. Frank Hayward.
Q. And by whom are you employed?
A. City of New Orleans, Department of Police.
Q. How long have you been a member of the New Orleans Police Department?
A. Approximately eight years.
Q. And to what division are you now assigned?
A. I am presently assigned to the Central Lock Up of the Police Department.
Q. Detective Hayward, during the month of August of 1963, to what division of the New Orleans Police Department were you assigned?
A. I was then assigned to the First Police District.
Q. And where is that located?
A. The commercial section of town.
Q. I direct your attention, Detective, to the date of August 9th, 1963, and ask you whether or not you had occasion to effect the arrest of anyone from the 700 block of Canal Street?
A. Yes, sir, my partner and I did arrest four people from that location.
Q. Who was your partner on that day?
A. Officer Frank Wilson.
Q. Would you give the names of the people that you arrested on that day in the 700 block of Canal Street?
A. I recall the last names of all four subjects, yes, sir. It was Bringuier, Cruz, Hernandez and Oswald.
Q. For what reason did you arrest these individuals?
A. We observed the four subjects in that block with a large crowd; a large crowd had gathered and an altercation was taking place between the three Spanish individuals and Mr. Oswald.
Q. Did you have occasion, besides effecting the arrest of these individuals, to subsequently have them booked in the First District Police Station?
A. Yes, sir, we did.
Q. At this time, were you able to ascertain the full name of the individual by the name of Oswald?
A. He gave the name of Lee, initial "H", Oswald.
Q. Detective Hayward, I show you what the State has marked S-1 for identification and ask if you have ever seen the individuals depicted in this photograph?
A. Yes, sir, this is one of the four subjects that we arrested on that date.
Q. Were you ever able to ascertain the name of that person depicted in that photograph?
A. Lee H. Oswald.
Q. Detective Hayward, I now show you what the State marks for the purpose of identification as S-2 and ask you if you have ever seen anyone depicted in those two photographs?
A. Yes, sir, I recognize the center subject in both photographs as being the same Lee H. Oswald that we arrested.
Q. Tender the witness.
BY MR. DYMOND:
No questions.
BY MR. OSER:
Your Honor, the State had no further need of Detective Hayward and asks that he be excused from subpoena, if the Court please?
BY JUDGE BAGERT:
Any objection?
BY MR. DYMOND:
No objection.
BY JUDGE BAGERT:
Officer, you are excused. You may leave whenever you desire.