Q. Al, now, after this meeting between your attorney [Hugh Exnicios], Lynn Loisel and yourself was recorded and which we have discussed, what happened to the tape recording that was made at that time? Did you go to any law enforcement agencies with it at that point?
A. After the discussion, the tape had been sent to several law enforcement agencies. One copy had been sent to the [sic], a transcript plus a statement with my signature on it had been sent to the US Attorney General, and another copy to the New Orleans Attorney General, and another copy was given to Langridge in Jefferson Parish.
Q. Now, District Attorney Langridge, did he, in addition to having a copy of the transcript, did he ever hear the recording?
A. Yes, he did. He read -- myself and Hugh Exnicios, my attorney at that time, had went [sic] to Langridge's home. Now, Langridge read the transcript, the tape was played, so he had full knowledge of what had taken place.
Q. Did he make any comment at that time?
A. Yes, he did; he said, you'll have to come into the office sometime or other tomorrow or the next day and talk to my investigators and some of my legal aides, and see if we can't keep this thing around and see what we have got here.
Q. Did you ever go talk to him again?
A. No, the issue was never pushed.
Q. Now, after you had sent transcripts of this recording to several investigative agencies, the Louisiana Attorney General, the US Attorney in New Orleans and District Attorney Langridge, what happened after that?
A. Hugh Exnicios, my attorney, I believe, tried to sell the tape to the news media or whatnot and was not as successful.
Q. Why was he trying to sell it?
A. Well, uh, pressed for money, I guess. I would like to cut that.
Q. Don't worry about that. Now, let me ask you this. An offer was made for you to testify, you said that you interpreted this as a bribe, and you [several words illegible] testify to something which was not true. Why didn't you accept the offer?
A. Because I wouldn't morally feel right knowing that I lied on the stand, plus taking the chance of being charged with perjury.
Q. But you did consider it at one point, did you not?
A. No, I didn't. I considered it to the point of telling the truth and giving a blank check on my mind to hypnosis, sodium Pentothal and lie detector test.
Q. You never considered taking what you considered to be a bribe?
A. No.
Q. Now, after the District Attorney's office, the New Orleans District Attorney's office, found out about the tape recording that had been made, what happened?
A. They came up to my house, they came to speak to me.
Q. Who?
A. Lynn Loisel and Louis Ivon, and I invited them in. I was shocked to see them after what had taken place. Lynn Loisel said, you know, Al, [several words illegible] and I said what do you mean, Lynn, and he said, well, I don't care to go into it, he said, but when you play dirty politics, you get hurt. If you want to play dirty pool, we can play, you are going to get hurt in the end. We just came by to confirm that you did make these statements to several law enforcement agencies.
Q. About the bribery attempt?
A. Yes. As they left out the door again, I was motioned to come bakc outside. This time my wife was listening at the front door. We got quite boisterous, and Lynn Loisel said, you know, Al, you did us a dirty deal. And I said, not really, Lynn, you wanted me to testify to something that wasn't true, you wanted me to give testimony, yet you didn't want to give anything back. You wanted to make a deal, but you wanted false information. I was willing to give you a blank check on my mind, and for a small return favor, that's all, and I said, and you didn't come through with nothing [sic], and I tried my best in good faith to help you out, and you had nothing for me there at all.
Q. Now, what happened after [several words illegible] these two investigators, what ensued there?
A. The same conversation I am talking about took place outside, after we were talking about the dirty politics and everything that had been played, Lynn Loisel got quite upset and said, you know, Al, I don't want to get in trouble over this thing -- no, it was Louis Ivon talking, correction, I am sorry; Louis Ivon said, I don't want to have any of my investigators arrested or picked up for any reason that you might think might be a bribe or anything. And I said, well, Lou, wasn't that what it was? And they said, do you want to let it go like that, Al, and I said, no, what can I do about it? He said, well, come down to the office tomorrow and we'll talk about it, and I said ago [sic]. Then Lynn Loisel started again and said, you know, Al, if anything happens out of this, you are going to get a hot load of lead, and I said, what do you mean -- just what I said, you are going to get a hot load of lead, in so many words I don't care to comment on over the air.
Q. Did they threaten you with anything else?
A. No, but that alone, when he pointed his finger at me, says, you are going to get a hot load of lead up your (hmmm), and he stopped short.
Q. Now, did they attempt to hold anything over you?
A. They got some pictures of me that they said they would hold over my head if I came out with this. They threatened to give these pictures out like they were going out of style if I come out in the open and said these charges of bribery.
Q. Do you know that they have the pictures, or did they just say --
A. I know that they have the pictures.
Q. Where did these pictures come from?
A. Out of, off my possession.
Q. These are pictures taken from you?
A. In 1963, and held ever since then, and for all I know, just for an occasion like this.
Q. Would you say they are pictures showing you in a somewhat compromising situation?
A. Yes.
Q. They are pictures you would not want displayed around on the street?
A. Correct.
Q. What happened after this meeting [several words illegible]?
A. I went up to his office the next day, and I guess you could say I was forced in having this stuff held over my head and threatened to sign a statement to the effect that I didn't hear their attempt to bribe me or accept money for information for a guaranteed job on an airline. I signed a statement stating that no bribe attempt -- I didn't understand this trade for information and job and money to be a bribe.
Q. Why did you sign this statement?
A. For fear. One, number one, my wife, the care of my family, and number two, the pictures.
Q. You say they threatened you; did they threaten you in the office that day, additionally?
A. No, no.
Q. How long were you in that office?
A. Six hours.
Q. Did you have an attorney?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever ask for an attorney?
A. They preferred I didn't bring him up there.
Q. What was the nature of that conversation over six hours?
A. Many things. One, that I shouldn't come forth -- one of the main issues at hand was about the new code stating that any exchange of money for information is a bribe. They said that no new code existed, and they swore up and down to this.
Q. Now, on the day you went to the District Attorney's office and signed a statement that you did not understand the offer of money to be a bribe, did you sign that statement realizing that it was not the truth as you realized it?
A. Yes, but I had no choice. I mean, I wasn't taken by force and held by gunpoint to sign it, but in view of the fact of what they had dangling over my head, I couldn't resist.
Q. What else did they have beside the pictures and the physical threat?
A. Nothing, really.
Q. Did they ever present any files, or --
A. Yes, they got a few folders full of literature about my past history, juvenile record.
Q. Were you a tough kid?
A. I'll say this, that anybody who loses their father . . . [several words illegible] At that time in his life until he grows up to be an adult.
Q. Did you consider this part of the threat, presenting of these files to you?
A. Yes, I did, because it concealed the statements by a principal in which I had quite an affair with through trouble in school [sic] and possibly several teachers who would swear up and down maybe I should have been in jail at the time.
Q. What did they say about this, did they just show them to you, or did they say they were going to use them?
A. They didn't show anything to me, they just dangled the pictures around for a few seconds to assure me that they had something, and I had to take their word on the rest. I actually asked to see the files, but they said, no, but perhaps at a later date.
Q. Did they tell you what was in the file?
A. Yes, and also that I might make headlines as Ferrie's lover and whatnot. Garrison has accused Ferrie of being homosexual, but David Ferrie has never been convicted of any such charge, and I was also threatened with that the same night they were at my house.
Q. Do you think you present a threat to them at this point?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Why?
A. Well, because I am one of many witnesses who have been intimidated, not witnesses, I have been intimidated, one of many, and I am coming forth now with this and I am sure, I hope many others will follow behind me who have been intimidated.
Q. Of your own knowledge, do you know of any others that have been intimidated?
A. I haven't talked to any actually who have been intimidated, but I have read statements by some of them who have been intimidated.
Q. Al, after Lynn Loisel and Louis Ivon appeared at your house and, you say, intimidated you, you went to the District Attorney's office the same day. Tell us what transpired there.
A. Well, the DA's [sic], Louis Ivon and Lynn Loisel greeted me, of course, getting me to sign a statement to the effect that I didn't hear the bribe, didn't hear what I considered to be a bribe or an exchange for a job or anything.
Q. That was to deny that you had ever --
A. Sign a statement to deny that I heard that the conversation we had to be a bribe or any job guarantee.
Q. Was the statement that you signed a correct statement, did you know it to be a correct statement?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. Why did you sign it?
A. Well, because of the pictures and the threat to hand them down and to be exposed, not to be exposed but subpoenaed.
Q. Subpoenaed where?
A. In front of the Grand Jury.
Q. Did they make other threats along that line?
A. Yes, the night they came by, they said that, they had a subpoena for me, if I wanted to come down willingly I could come down and no subpoena would be issued. I went down there and come to find out the reason why they had the subpoena was to embarrass me publicly if I didn't want to cooperate in signing the statement, along with the pictures and different records that they had on me.
Q. Did they ever suggest any other action they might take against you?
A. No, none besides a threat, the pictures, and the embarrassment of being subpoenaed.
Q. Did they ever mention indictment, perhaps?
A. No, they never got that far.
Q. Can you relate your situation to anyone else's in the case?
A. Yes, Layton Martens. They said Layton Martens didn't cooperate with them like they wanted him to, so they had subpoenaed him and embarrassed him publicly.
Q. Had he been indicted by that time?
A. Yes, I don't know whether he had been subpoenaed or indicted, I know he had been brought out to the cameras.
Q. Just in summary, what were all the threats they made to you, and where did they make them?
A. One was to shoot me, one was to show these pictures of me and hand out all my records and files that they have collected on me for the past three years, part of it through the investigation, and to try and subpoena me and try to publicize the fact that I was a friend of Dave Ferrie's, and try to embarrass me publicly.
Q. Were they going to try to make you more of a friend of Dave Ferrie's, were they going to imply that?
A. Yes, they were. Lynn Loisel said, if anything comes of this, Al, the first thing that is going to hit the headlines is, Al: Ferrie's lover. And from previous statements that Jim Garrison had made that Dave Ferrie was a homosexual, but David Ferrie had never been convicted of a homosexual charge.
Q. Have you ever talked to Jim Garrison?
A. Never.
Q. But in your dealings with Lynn Loisel and Ivon, were you always under the impression that they were acting on his behalf?
A. Yes, they always stated, the boss, they talked to him of being the boss, the boss said this, the boss said that. And I am purely under the impression and understanding that they were representing Jim Garrison. They told me that Jim Garrison wanted to see me himself. I never did get to see him. I asked why, and they said that he didn't want to be bothered with me, to the extent that if he had to spend all his time with petty things like this, he wouldn't be able to get anything done.
Q. When you went into the office, other than asking you to sign the statement, did they attempt to have you further cooperate with them, in other words, were there any further attempts to make --
A. No, the deal was, if I kept my mouth shut and signed the statement, they wouldn't bother me any more.
Q. It would be sort of a Chinese draw?
A. Right. Something like a contract, you sign the contract, they'll leave you alone.
Q. And that's why you signed the statement?
A. Yes, because I didn't want to be publicly embarrassed by being subpoenaed in front of a Roman circus.
Q. Is that what you think it is?
A. Yes.
Q. Today you went to a private [illegible] in Washington and submitted to an extensive polygraph test. I am going to read the questions which you were asked by the polygraph operator, and I would like you to give me the same responses that you gave to these exact questions during the polygraph test. One, did David Ferrie ever tell you he was directly involved with either Shaw or Oswald in the assassination of President Kennedy?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever know personally anyone named Clay Shaw, Clem Bertrand or Clay Bertrand?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever know a man named Lee Harvey Oswald or Leon Oswald personally?
A. No.
Q. Did you actually believe Loisel attempted to bribe you to give him false information concerning President Kennedy's assassination?
A. Yes.
Q. Did Loisel threaten you, in effect, to put a load of hot lead on you if you ever accused him of attempted bribery?
A. Yes.
Q. Did Loisel threaten to circulate compromising pictures of you if you ever accused him of attempting to bribe you?
A. Yes.
Q. The questions which I just read to you, you answered in a manner you just described, is that right, to the polygraph operator? Did that polygraph operator tell you whether you're shown to be telling the truth to all these questions?
A. Beyond a shadow of a doubt, to his knowledge, I was telling the truth.
Q. So you feel, on the basis of the polygraph test which you submitted to today, that you have been borne out in your statements that, one, you were approached by a member of the District Attorney's staff with the bribery offer?
A. Correct.
Q. You were intimidated, threatened by members of the District Attorney's staff after that?
A. Yes.
Q. That you do not know anything about the assassination or David Ferrie's possible involvement?
A. That's correct.
Q. That you don't know Clay Shaw, Lee Harvey Oswald, the so-called fellow plotters?
A. No, not at all.
[Cut.]
Q. Al, today you paid a visit here in Washington, DC, to the office of a polygraph operator, a lie detector operator, who is reported to be an expert in that field. Did you answer some questions in regard to this case?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, I have a list of six questions here which you were asked by the polygraph operator. Now, I wish you would answer them in the same way you answered to that man.
Did David Ferrie ever tell you he was directly involved with either Shaw or Oswald in the assassination of President Kennedy?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever know personally anyone named Clay Shaw, Clem Bertrand or Clay Bertrand?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever know a man named Lee Harvey Oswald or Leon Oswald personally?
A. No.
Q. Did you actually believe Loisel attempted to bribe you to give him false information concerning President Kennedy's assassination?
A. Yes.
Q. Did Loisel threaten you, in effect, to put a load of hot lead on you if you ever accused him of attempted bribery?
A. Yes.
Q. Did Loisel threaten to circulate compromising pictures of you if you ever accused him of attempting to bribe you?
A. Yes.
Q. You answered in that manner to the polygraph operator?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he, at the end of this lengthy examination, tell you whether he thought you were telling the truth in answer to all of these questions?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. What did he say?
A. He said that the results were positive, that there were no lies in any of the statements that you just read to me, questions that you just read to me.
Q. Based on the lie detector test which you took today, do you feel this is a confirmation of the story you told tonight, that you were approached by a member of the District Attorney's office with a bribe attempt and later intimidated to hide that bribe attempt?
A. Yes.
Q. Are you also saying that this lie detector is a confirmation of the fact that you do not know anything about the assassination of President Kennedy?
A. Definitely.