Judyth Vary Baker:
Judyth, Dave Ferrie, and Oswald's ToothCopyright © 2004 by David Reitzes
Judyth Vary Baker (center), with David Ferrie (left) and a young Lee Harvey Oswald (right)
Judyth Vary Baker:
Judyth, Dave Ferrie, and Oswald's ToothCopyright © 2004 by David Reitzes
Judyth Vary Baker (center), with David Ferrie (left) and a young Lee Harvey Oswald (right)
Researchers have long wondered whether Lee Oswald became acquainted with one of New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison's suspects, David Ferrie, during the brief time Oswald and Ferrie were both involved with the Civil Air Patrol in New Orleans during the mid-1950s. Alleged Oswald mistress Judyth Vary Baker, of course, says he did, and claims to have been told by both men exactly how it happened.In a post to the JFKresearch forum, Judyth Vary Baker wrote:
The entire story of how Dave Ferrie and Lee became friends rests on a fight they had . . .(1)In a message posted to JFKresearch by her acolyte Wim Dankbaar, Judyth elaborated:
According to Judyth as told to her by LHO.Notice when Judyth said this fight occurred: "just after Lee joined Ferrie's Air Patrol Unit."David Ferrie and Oswald had a fight. This was just after Lee joined Ferrie's Air Patrol Unit. Ferrie almost knocked his tooth out. It was wobbly in the socket. Then shortly after Lee had another fight with three kids. One of them hit him again, and the tooth came out. Lee put it in a glass of milk (I guess he was advised to do so) and went to the dentist the same day. But not before he had his picture taken in school. The dentist put the tooth back in and fixed it. Lee did not loose his tooth. It grew back firm in the socket.(2)
Judyth offered a slight clarification in a subsequent post:
Wim has done a good job condensing what happened. Would like to add that Lee had been in CAP longer than indicated in Wim's recap. . . . Not only Lee but Ferrie told me essentially the same thing.(3)Judyth affirmed the timing again in another post to JFKresearch:
CONCERNING THE TOOTH, I HAVE STATED THAT DAVID FERRIE EITHER KNOCKED OUT OR LOOSENED THE TOOTH, SOMETIME AFTER LEE HAD BEEN GOING FOR SEVERAL WEEKS TO CAP MEETINGS . . .(4)She also confirmed the timing in the outline she distributed to prospective publishers. According to Judyth, the fight between Oswald and Ferrie began when Oswald refused one of Ferrie's advances. Her outline states:
The 15-year-old Lee had spurned Ferrie's homosexual advances when Ferrie captained Lee's Civil Air Patrol Unit (CAP).(5)So this alleged fight between Oswald and Ferrie occurred, according to Judyth, several weeks after Oswald started attending CAP meetings.
In a 2004 interview with the Internet program Black Op Radio, Judyth again discussed the early days of the alleged friendship between Lee Oswald and Dave Ferrie:
Q. Now, did you feel as though there was a close friendship between Lee and Ferrie? Or how would you describe their relationship?The problem (well, one of the problems) is that Judyth has confused the chronology of her so-called lover's biography.A. Oh, absolutely! However, it had a rocky start. Um, unfortunately for Lee, um, Dave Ferrie was not very, um, diplomatic, shall we say in, uh, handling of young boys, and he's, of course, become notorious, but in my opinion, it's been overblown. Although, of course, I was his friend so I'm prejudiced, I suppose. But there is no doubt that Dave Ferrie made a pass at Lee Oswald, and Lee did rebuke it and reject it, and, uh -- Lee had seen a lot, he had grown up in New Orleans, so he knew what Dave was trying to do. And he also knew how to fight. And Dave ended up respecting Lee. But he loosened his tooth. . . .
Dave smacked him in the mouth pretty hard and beat him. He really got angry because Lee was taunting him and everything, you know. And, uh, resisting. And then he realized that Lee's mother was dating Sam Termine. Uh, he was, at one time had been a driver for Carlos Marcello. And then he remembered Lee's uncle was really, was a boxer (laughs) and was really lovely, and he -- Dave Ferrie was in big trouble. He had blood coming out of Lee's mouth and everything. The tooth was very loose. He was afraid it would come out. He told Lee to be sure and get milk if it came out. He gave him twenty dollars, uh, so he could go to a dentist if it came out.
Well, it wasn't a week later, so he got smacked mouth really hard by a football player who was a friend of some kid that Lee had had a fight with or something at school. Anyway, uh, there's this famous picture of Lee Oswald with no tooth. . . .
Well, just like any teenager who wants to save his front tooth, Lee saved his tooth, put it in milk, went to the dentist, had it pushed in, and sewed in, and it took. It was not lost. They ["two Oswalds" theorists] don't like to hear that.(6)
The assumption has always been that Oswald and Ferrie met when Oswald attended a few Civil Air Patrol meetings with Beauregard Junior High School pal Edward Voebel, beginning in July 1955. Voebel's Warren Commission testimony loosely supports this:
Mr. JENNER. Did you and Lee have any interest in the Civil Air Patrol?Unfortunately for Judyth, the fight Oswald got in at school, during which he reportedly lost a tooth (described in Edward Voebel's Warren Commission testimony), occurred well before Oswald attended any CAP meetings with Voebel. In fact, Voebel's testimony relates, it was just after this fight that Voebel and Oswald met and became friends in the first place.(8)Mr. VOEBEL. Yes; I think I got him interested in it. We got to talking about it and I told him as much as I knew about it, and I think he attended maybe one or two meetings, and I think he even subsequently bought a uniform, and he attended at least one meeting that I remember, in that uniform, but after that he didn't show up again.
Mr. JENNER. He just attended two meetings of the CAP?
Mr. VOEBEL. Two or three meetings, I would say.
Mr. JENNER. And that's all he attended?
Mr. VOEBEL. Yes, He lost interest after that, I think.
Mr. JENNER. Who was the majordomo of the CAP unit that you attended?
Mr. VOEBEL. I think it was Captain Ferrie. I think he was there when Lee attended one of these meetings, but I'm not sure of that. Now that I think of it, I don't think Captain Ferrie was there at that time, but he might have been. That isn't too clear to me.(7)
Likewise, the photograph showing Oswald allegedly missing a tooth was taken in a Beauregard Junior High School classroom during the 1954-55 school year; it was published in the Beauregard 1954-55 yearbook. But Oswald and Voebel would not attend CAP meetings until the summer of '55, well after the yearbook was published.(9)
So, to sum up: By Judyth's own account, Oswald met Dave Ferrie through the Civil Air Patrol, which Oswald attended in the summer of 1955; Ferrie "loosened" a tooth of Oswald's, which was knocked out about a week later; yet Oswald, by Judyth's own account, was photographed missing this very same tooth in a Beauregard Junior High School classroom during the 1954-55 school year -- before (as Judyth's puts it) "Lee joined Ferrie's Air Patrol Unit."
Judyth Baker says that David Ferrie punched Oswald in the mouth and loosened a front tooth that subsequently fell out; she says the tooth is missing in this photograph of young Oswald. But this photograph was published in Oswald's junior high school yearbook several months before (by all accounts, including Judyth's) Oswald could have met David Ferrie.
Oddly, an issue arose at JFKresearch over the chronology of the two fights described in Ed Voebel's Warren Commission testimony. (First he fought with two kids, John and Mike Neumeyer, then had the tooth knocked out the following day by a friend of theirs who Ed Voebel did not know, whose name -- according to the WC testimony of Mrs. Bennierita Smith -- was Robin Reily; it was Reily who allegedly knocked out Oswald's tooth.)(10) But no one seems to have noticed the real problem -- that Judyth has Oswald getting a smack in the mouth from Dave Ferrie before Oswald and Ferrie could have even met!
Faced with the rather trivial discrepancies brought up at JFKresearch, Judyth responded:
It is possible after all these years I have some of the chronology mixed up, as I remember Lee said his tooth got knocked out after a fight with I think he dsaid [sic] three kids. But it is possible he also told me he got hit after that by the big guy and I just assumed it was one of the three he mentioned. This was after the tooth was already significantly loosened by Dave ferrie [sic] and perhaps had even been stitched in, as at some point Lee said the tooth was stitched in around the gums. I thought this was when it was reseated by the dentist. At any rate, i [sic] am certain that he 'grossed out' kids and showed off when his tooth fell out or came out in class, which promopted [sic] the picture, and I am also CERTAIN that this same tooth was saved in milk and was reseated by a dentist. Both Ferrie and Lee told me essentially the same thing. [Emphasis as in the original.](11)So, no matter what else she might have wrong in her account, Judyth says she is positive that whatever happened at Beauregard Junior High School, "This was after the tooth was already significantly loosened by Dave ferrie [sic]."
Judyth can be certain of her story because she heard it from, not just one participant of the alleged fight, but both participants, Oswald and Ferrie.
However, Judyth related more details that further demonstrate her confusion about the timing of these incidents. Despite her insistence that the fight between Oswald and Ferrie took place weeks after Oswald joined the CAP during the summer of 1955, she also relates details placing the timing of the "missing tooth" during the school year 1954-55:
CONCERNING THE TOOTH, I HAVE STATED THAT DAVID FERRIE EITHER KNOCKED OUT OR LOOSENED THE TOOTH, SOMETIME AFTER LEE HAD BEEN GOING FOR SEVERAL WEEKS TO CAP MEETINGS . . . I THOUGHT DAVE KNOCKED IT OUT, BUT ON WSECOND [sic] THOUGHT, I THINK HE SAID IT WAS ALMOST KNOCKED OUT, AND ADVISED LEE IF IT FELL OUT TO PUT IT IN A GLASS OF MILK. LATER, LEE TOLD ME ABOUT HOW HE SAVED THE TOOTH IN MILK,AT SCHOOL SOMEBODY ELSE TOLD HIM TO DO THE SAME THING, AND THIS AFTER HE HAD BEEN HIT IN THE MOUTH IN A FIGHT (WITH THE WOBBLY TOOTH KNOCKED OUT). HE MAY HAVE NOT HAD THE TOOTH ACTUALLY COME OUT UNTIL THE NEXT DAY AT SCHOOL, I CAN'T REMEMBER, BUT IT IS CERTAIN THAT HE KNEW IT WAS GOING TO FALL OUT. HE GROSSED OUT KIDS BY REMOVING AND THEN REPLACING THE TOOTH WHEN IT CAME OUT AT SCHOOL. THIS GROSSED OUT KIDS WHO DECIDED TO GET A PICTURE OF HIM, AS SEVERAL TIMES HE TOOK THE TOOTH AND RE-INSERTED IT IN HIS MOUTH AS A JOKE. HE WAS TOLD TO PUT THE TOOTH INTO A GLASS OF MILK AND SOON AFTER THAT SAME AFTERNOON WENT TO THE DENTIST AND GOT IT RESEATED AND IT ACTUALLY WAS SAVED. I SEARCHED FOR PROOF OF WHAT I WAS TOLD, AND I MAY HAVE SOME DETAILS WRONG, BUT THAT IS THE GIST OF IT.(12)The sequence of events is as follows, according to Judyth:
1. Oswald attends CAP meetings with Dave Ferrie for several weeks.
2. Oswald and Ferrie get in a fight; Ferrie slugs Oswald in the mouth and loosens one of his teeth.
3. Oswald gets in a fight with two brothers at school; a third boy subsequently knocks Oswald's loosened tooth out.
4. Oswald is photographed with the missing tooth.
5. Oswald has the tooth reseated.
How can Judyth be so sure of these events? Because she says, "Both Ferrie and Lee told me essentially the same thing."
But in reality the photograph of Oswald supposedly missing a tooth was taken -- and published -- before Oswald attended any Civil Air Patrol meetings.
How to explain this puzzling anomaly?
I originally posted a draft of the above article to the alt.assassination.jfk newsgroup, a group frequented by Judyth Baker, in July 2004. Judyth did not respond. I occasionally reposted it to the newsgroup and also another forum where Judyth has been known to post, the JFK Lancer Research Forum. Finally, in November 2004, I received a response from Judyth. She wrote:
I have previously explained [sic] -- only to have Mr. Reitzes slough over it [sic] -- that I could easily have mixed the sequence of events. So what? I was not given the date when Dave nearly knocked out Lee's tooth. It happened after a CAP meeting, and I do not even know if Lee actually attended the meeting. My attempts to reconstruct the events have given Mr. Reitzes occasion to attack me rather than try to see that I have attempted to explain why I know that there were not TWO Lee Oswalds involved in the matter of the tooth.Here is the response I posted:Lee's tooth was loosened and may have been knocked out later. Lee's tooth was loosened, and it may have been knocked out and reseated and THREN [sic] he got hit in the mouth by Dave. One of those events occurred. i [sic] tried to guess the sequence. So cut my head off for it, Dave. I am trying to help. At the time I was told of this event, dates were not given. Rarely does somebody say, on such and such a date such and such happened.(13)
Judyth,Thank you for finally responding to my article, which I originally posted to alt.assassination.jfk on July 13th of this year.
Unfortunately, I don't find your response satisfactory. Let's take a look at one reason why.
You say: ". . . I could easily have mixed the sequence of events. So what? I was not given the date when Dave nearly knocked out Lee's tooth."
However, you told the folks at JFKresearch, ". . . I remember Lee said his tooth got knocked out after a fight with I think he dsaid [sic] three kids. But it is possible he also told me he got hit after that by the big guy and I just assumed it was one of the three he mentioned. This was after the tooth was already significantly loosened by Dave ferrie [sic] and perhaps had even been stitched in, as at some point Lee said the tooth was stitched in around the gums. I thought this was when it was reseated by the dentist. At any rate, i [sic] am certain that he 'grossed out' kids and showed off when his tooth fell out or came out in class, which promopted [sic] the picture, and I am also CERTAIN that this same tooth was saved in milk and was reseated by a dentist. Both Ferrie and Lee told me essentially the same thing."
So, Judyth, you are on record telling us EXACTLY when Ferrie supposedly loosened Oswald's tooth: during the 1954-1955 school year, prior to the encounters Oswald had with "three kids" and "big guy" Robin Reily, and just prior to the time Oswald was captured in a photograph published in the Beauregard Junior High School yearbook of 1954-1955 -- months BEFORE Lee Harvey Oswald attended any Civil Air Patrol meetings.
You said: ". . . i [sic] am certain that he 'grossed out' kids and showed off when his tooth fell out or came out in class, which promopted [sic] the picture, and I am also CERTAIN that this same tooth was saved in milk and was reseated by a dentist. Both Ferrie and Lee told me essentially the same thing."
Now, of course, you've found out this is impossible, so you're backing off, telling us all, 'Gee, maybe I'm NOT so certain of these things after all. And, gee, maybe Oswald and Ferrie DIDN'T tell me these things. And, gee, I only "tried to guess the sequence" of events I previously said I was absolutely certain about!'
Tell us all another one, Judyth.
Dave(14)
NOTES: You may wish to see . . .
David Ferrie: Presumed Guilty -- Garrison's Villain and Hollywood's Clown
Back to The Men Who Killed Kennedy
1. Judyth Vary Baker, JFKresearch post, November 14, 2002.
2. Wim Dankbaar, JFKresearch post, November 13, 2002.
3. Judyth Vary Baker, JFKresearch post, November 14, 2002.
4. Judyth Vary Baker, JFKresearch post, November 14, 2002.
5. Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, "Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy."
6. Black Op Radio, Episode 171, May 13, 2004, Part 1. The relevant quotation occurs approximately 37 minutes into the segment. When Judyth refers to "two Oswalds" theorists, she is referring to a theory originated by researcher John Armstrong, which states that the young Lee Harvey Oswald pictured in the Beauregard classroom cannot be the same Lee Harvey Oswald murdered by Jack Ruby, as that Oswald individual was not missing any front teeth. For further information, click here, but beware the tasteless graphics.
7. Warren Commission Hearings, Vol. VIII, p. 14.
8. Warren Commission Hearings, Vol. VIII, p. 2.
11. Judyth Vary Baker, JFKresearch post, November 14, 2002.
12. Judyth Vary Baker, JFKresearch post, November 14, 2002.
13. Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, November 6, 2004. When Judyth refers to "two Oswalds" theorists, she is referring to a theory originated by researcher John Armstrong, which states that the young Lee Harvey Oswald pictured in the Beauregard classroom cannot be the same Lee Harvey Oswald murdered by Jack Ruby, as that Oswald individual was not missing any front teeth. For further information, click here, but beware the tasteless graphics.
14. Dave Reitzes, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, November 7, 2004.
You may wish to see . . .
David Ferrie: Presumed Guilty -- Garrison's Villain and Hollywood's Clown
Back to The Men Who Killed Kennedy
