Jack Martin's Allegations About David Ferrie
Subject: Jack Martin's Allegations About Ferrie
Date: 13 Aug 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <20000813021634.18600.00000527@ng-fu1.aol.com>
11/23/63 Martin to Maj. Presley J. Trosclair of NOPD
-Ferrie owned rifle similar to C2766 shown on TV
-Ferrie mentioned short story plot about shooting of a US president
-Heard on TV that Ferrie and Oswald were in same CAP unit
-Heard on TV that Oswald possessed Ferrie's library card
-Gill had made Ferrie remove Cuban propaganda from his office
-Ferrie was at that moment on his way to Texas
11/24/63 Martin to Herman Kohlman of New Orleans DA's office
-Ferrie is a degenerate capable of any crime
-Ferrie owned guns similar to C2766 shown on TV
-Gill made Ferrie remove Cuban propaganda from his office
-Ferrie was in Texas
11/25/63 Martin in letter to FAA and FBI
-Oswald was a member of Ferrie's phony CAP squadron
-Ferrie had a bunch of foreign rifles
-Ferrie was getting mail from the Cuban people Oswald was connected with
-Ferrie was a professional hypnotist
-Ferrie had been in and out of town just prior to assassination
-Ferrie was dumped by Cubans because of his pro-Castro activity
-Ferrie "could have taught" Oswald to purchase and use such a rifle
-Ferrie helped Oswald get into the Marine Corps
-Ferrie is capable of assassination
11/25/63 Martin to SA Regis Kennedy and SA Claude Schlager of FBI
-Heard on TV that Ferrie and Oswald were in the same CAP unit
-Ferrie may have hypnotized Oswald to kill JFK
-May have seen a photo in Ferrie's home of Oswald in CAP unit
-Ferrie may have taught Oswald to purchase such a weapon
-Oswald may have been the witness against Ferrie in morals case
-Ferrie travelled to Texas
-Ferrie is capable of any crime
-Ferrie could be implicated in JFK assassination
11/27/63 Martin to SA Regis Kennedy and SA LN Shearer
-Never heard Ferrie say JFK should be killed
-May have come to the conclusion that Oswald possessed Ferrie's library card
-Ferrie had guns similar to C2766
-Ferrie possessed Cuban propaganda in Gill's office
-Ferrie is a completely degenerate person capable of any crime
-Ferrie may have trained Oswald to shoot a rifle with telescopic sight
-Did not say Ferrie had flown Oswald to Texas
12/13/66 Martin to Pershing Gervais of NODA
-Arthus told him Oswald had office at 544 Camp
-Ferrie taught Oswald how to order guns
-Ferrie was in Dallas with his Stinson at time of assassination
-Ferrie knew Oswald intimately
-Oswald was in Ferrie's non-existent CAP group
-Ferrie introduced Martin to Oswald at his home (mother and Brownlee present)
-Ferrie's black mechanic was in the TSBD
-Ferrie was in Dallas-Fort Worth on 11/20/63
12/14/66 Martin to Jim Garrison of NODA
-Oswald was in Ferrie's non-existent CAP group
-Ferrie introduced Martin to Oswald in Banister's office
-Oswald came to Banister's office to see Banister, with Arcacha present
-Ferrie was pro-JFK, worshipped him like a god
-Saw Ferrie and Oswald together on other occasions
-Ferrie taught Oswald how to order rifles
-Oswald had an office at 544 Camp, Ferrie was in there all the time
12/26/66 Martin to Louis Ivon of NODA
-Saw Ferrie, Oswald, Brownlee enter Banister's office
9/19/77 Martin to Cliff Fenton of HSCA
-Ferrie's grave site was changed and body moved more than twice by FBI
12/5/77 Martin to Robert Buras of HSCA
-Saw Oswald with Ferrie in Banister's office
-Saw rifle just like C2766 in Ferrie's apartment
-Gun Oswald used might have belonged to Ferrie
Martin's statements are sometimes hard to follow. I have tried to include any allegations about Ferrie. I have one or two other statements from Jack S. Martin. I'll find them and post them.
oo
David Blackburst
From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: Jack Martin's Allegations About Ferrie
Date: 14 Aug 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <20000813235449.27514.00000746@ng-cn1.aol.com>
Bishopm wrote:
>Thanks for posting this, David. I'm not sure if your intent was to
>question Martin's credibility, as his story morphed somewhat over the
>years.
I have recently been involved in several discussions about Martin and Ferrie, and I inferred that a couple of posters did not really seem to be familiar with the actual content of Martin's various statements, so I thought I'd post them without editorial comment. As for my own views, I've accumulated a lot of stuff about Martin, and I find it very hard to have great confidence in him. As for the 1963 allegations, the actual wording of the documents suggests that these are just speculations on Martin's part. When I finalize the chronology of events of that weekend, it should make the matter a bit clearer.
>I take it as given that you have accurately synopsized the contents of
>each document, without editiorial skew.
Some of Martin's statements are very hard to decipher, but I think my synopses cover the main points fairly. It would be safe to say that the synopses are generally accurate.
>The same, however, cannot be merely 'assumed' about the authors of
>*some* of the documents you cited. A disbelieving, disinterested or
>deceitful report author can render a document nearly unrecognizable to
>the interviewee who made the report.
True. The 1963 interviews were largely the work of SA Regis L. Kennedy who, at least in 1967, didn't seem to have a lot of faith in speculations about a New Orleans plot. The 1966 interviews were done by Gervais and Garrison, and are from transcripts of the actual tapes. The 1977 interviews were by Buras and Delsa, who were not closed to the possibility of conspiracy.
>Have we ever *really* discovered the genesis of the library card
>story? If that story was reported on a New Orleans TV station, can we
>not locate its original source from the reporter[s]? It seems
>important to determine the truth or falsity of the original report.
The documents suggest that Martin was the source. I checked with WDSU and WWL as best I could, and they do not recall ever airing such an item. I note that Martin seem to have backed away from the story by 1966.
>It
>seems particularly imperative when considering that Marina was asked by
>SS about a 'Mr. Fairy' on the same day Martin made his disclosure.
I think the documentary record suggests what happened. On 11/24/63 at 10am, Martin tried to reach ADA Herman Kohlman through a man named J. Philip Stein. At 5pm, Stein's roommate Donald Mitchell called SA Anthony Gerrets of the Secret Service and told him of Martin's call. (This appears to be the first notification of the USSS). At about 7pm, Alec Gifford of WDSU, who had been phoned earlier by Martin, contacted SAIC John Rice. At 11pm, Stein phoned the USSS. At 11:10pm, ADA Kohlman phoned SA Gerrets about the allegations, and said he had 10 men scouring the city for Ferrie. At about 11:30pm Gerrets phoned Inspector Tom Kelley in Washington and related Martin's allegations, and the fact that NODA was looking for him. At 12:35, Kohlman phoned Gerrets and said that Ferrie may be in Texas. At 12:40am, Gerrets again spoke to Kelley. It was around this time that Kelley spoke to agents in Texas and asked Marina if she knew a "Mr. Farry".
>Twice within a day, Martin told NOPD and the DA's office that Ferrie
>owned [what was presumably] a MC carbine. Is there any record that
>effort was expended to verify this claim?
On two documented occasions, law enforcement searched and inventoried Ferrie's firearms:
FBI, 8/22/61
4 1903 model Springfield rifles
2 .22 calibre rifles
1 English rifle
1 flare gun
1 .38 calibre revolver
a quantity of ammunition
NODA, 11/24-5/63
1 Smith and Wesson .38 calibre revolver
1 .22 calibre Hamilton rifle
1 large bore English Army type rifle
1 flare gun
a large quantity of ammunition
>Given the emergence of pro-Castro literature among Oswald's personal
>effects after arrest, should an objective police investigation not also
>have resulted in Gill being interviewed about whether Ferrie had such
>propaganda in Gill's office?
Martin told the FBI that Hardy Davis must have been mistaken, that Ferrie would only have had anti-Castro literature.
>Martin was the earliest
>known informant that Ferrie and Oswald knew each other. Hence,
>assessing the truth of his story, or lack thereof, is singularly
>important.
Maybe Martin wasn't the first. Several people told authorites and news outlets that Ferrie and Oswald had been in the came CAP unit. One of these was police officer Freddy O'Sullivan, who had actually taken Oswald to his first meeting.
>A few oddities. If it was Banister who pistol-whipped Martin, why
>implicate Ferrie and not Banister? If Martin's ploy was crafted simply
>to accommodate revenge, why shift the target from Banister to Ferrie?
I have wondered this.
>here's little doubt in my mind that Banister *did*
>inflict serious bodily harm on Martin, for whatever reason. To what
>extent are those injuries mentioned in the reports you cited?
From police report:
"Banister...struck Martin about his head five or six times with the gun
barrel. When Martin began to bleed, Banister stopped hitting him...Upon
examining Martin's head, he had three small lacerations on the forehead and one
laceration on the rear of his head."
>As for the latter-day admissions that Martin had personally witnessed
>Oswald in the company of Ferrie, Banister, Arcacha, et al: was this a
>detail he had previously failed to disclose; was it previously reported
>by Martin, but deliberately [or otherwise] excluded from
>contemporaneous reports; or was it extracted from Martin by the DA's
>office because they asked more
>probing questions?
To me, it looks like a detail - a big detail - added in 1966, but there is no way to be sure.
oo
David
From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: Dave Reitzes, tell us about Jack Martin
Date: 09 Aug 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <20000809004656.15914.00000120@ng-ce1.aol.com>
A little background: Jack Martin pops up in several ways in the matter of Ferrie's dismissal from Eastern Air Lines, and Ferrie's grievances against EAL in that matter. One of EAL's reasons given for the dismissal was "Ferrie's involvement in 1961 in the Holy Catholic Apostolic Church", specifically the phony ordination certificate making him a Missionary Bishop in the group. Ferrie's defense is that he merely obtained the certificate as part of an investigation of phony ordination mills, an investigation conducted by Jack Martin.
In his testimony, Ferrie dismisses Martin as "mentally -- I should say emotionally unstable" but hedges a bit, as EAL is "asking me to put something in the transcript I could be sued for" by Martin.
Less than an hour later, Banister, who testified on Ferrie's behalf, also cautiously minimized Martin:
"Q. Did Martin want something out of the various degrees from the Saviour...?
A. You would have to know Jack Martin. He wants all these honors himself, for
one thing, and he hangs them on the wall...He calls himself a bishop and laughs
about that. He would do that simply for the privilege of hanging these things
on the wall and nothing else...
Q. Where did you get the files from...?
A. Well, Jack Martin -- what would you say -- in police circles is apparently
'on the lam.'"
Thursday August 8, 1963, Miami
Banister seems to tread cautiously, referring to Martin in somewhat disdainful terms, continuing Ferrie's minimization of him, but stopping short of anything slanderous. Perhaps he held a fondness for him, or perhaps, like Ferrie. he feared a lawsuit.
oo
David
From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: Dave Reitzes, tell us about Jack Martin
Date: 08 Aug 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <20000807232709.06310.00000102@ng-fb1.aol.com>
Dave R. hasn't responded to this yet, but I wanted to add a few comments about John Stewart Martin Sr.:
>I seem to remember Martin and Ferrie being friends.
Martin and Ferrie first met in June 1961, when both were assisting the New Orleans office of the FRD. In November 1961, Martin began helping Ferrie with his legal woes, and threw the suspended pilot some investigative work. The two developed a friendship. By late 1962, Martin was still socializing with Ferrie, while feeding information about him behind his back to Eastern Air Lines' investigators. In late May 1963, the two had a full blowout, Martin writing to EAL a letter accusing Ferrie of many things, and calling him a "10 kt. jerk". Martin next sabotaged Ferrie's ordination in Kankakee, and began feeding negative info to both EAL and the FAA. He was still pissed at Ferrie on November 25, writing letters to both the FAA and the FBI.
>And Jack working for Guy
>Banister, "who was like a father" to Martin.
Banister was hot and cold to Martin. At Ferrie's EAL hearing in August, 1963, Banister describes Martin in somewhat disdainful terms. Martin may have thought of Banister as a father, but Banister was more lukewarm.
>Martin was also considered a >reliable informant [ ! ] for both the NOPD and FBI.
On 12/19/62, a former FBI agent turned investigator wrote: "Martin is considered extrememely unreliable and on several proior occasions this man himself has been involved in matters which bordered on extortion..."
>I'll simply ask for you tell us how Jack was more of a
>"sociopath" than the underage-boy-molesting pilot you seem to love attempting
>to deify.
I won't defend Ferrie's seamy character, but in 1956, the US Attorney in New Orleans said that Martin "was being treated as a psychoneurotic". In 1957, Martin's psychiatrist said that "Martin definitely did suffer from some sort of character disorder."
oo
David Blackburst
From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: Earlier, Longer Ferrie FBI Interview 11/26/63
Date: 07 Jun 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <20000607194957.19749.00004188@ng-ct1.aol.com>
Dave Reitzes wrote:
>Good ol' Jack Martin, a diagnosed sociopath who, by all accounts, hated Dave
>Ferrie's guts
Investigators for Eastern Air Lines wrote:
Martin is considered extremely unreliable and on several occasions this man
himself has been involved in matters which bordered on extortion...
This was written in December 1962, ELEVEN MONTHS before the assassination.
JACK MARTIN wrote:
This guy (Ferrie) is a real 10 kt. jerk...and anyone who would use him as a
pilot [and entrust] human life in his hands needs a psychiatrist.
Martin wrote this on May 31, 1963 - SIX MONTHS before the assassination.
oo
David Blackburst
From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: If Oswald Knew Banister, Et. Al
Date: 08 Aug 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <20000808182104.15898.00000067@ng-ce1.aol.com>
Jerry98 wrote:
>Do you agree that IF Oswald worked out of Banister's offices for the
>old Guy himself that Martin would have known it and would have included
>that info in his phone calls over the weekend?
Yes. Martin wasn't working as an investigator for Banister at the time, but clearly the two were drinking buddies. He was so eager to torpedo Ferrie that his omission of any 1963 revelation that Oswald associated with either Ferrie or Banister suggests that he had no such knowledge. In 1966 he DID come up with a supposed encounter between himself, Oswald and Ferrie at Ferrie's home, but his statements are so confused and provably wrong in some respects that I have trouble crediting the story's accuracy.
Those who think Martin was a good witness who was maligned by others should use their 100 free pages at NARA to obtain Martin's statements.
>And that others who worked in the Newman building or who worked for
>Banister, or Banister, himself, would have provided that information to
>investigators?
Yes. It it striking that nobody - Martin, Delphine Roberts, Joe Newbrough, Dave Lewis, Louise Decker, Mary Brengel, Shirley Basile, Ivan Nitschke - came forward with any such information in 1963. Those who later came forward did so years later, and most only after the names Banister and Ferrie had been widely publicized.
>And since nobody did provide that information the reasonable conclusion
>is that Oswald neither knew Ferrie in '63 nor knew or worked for
>Banister, nor had an office in the Newman building.
Yes, a reasonable conclusion. One does have to consider later allegations, but I have not yet found a witness I would call solid. I could accept that Oswald contemplated or even discussed such an office with a later-embarrassed Newman, but this is only speculative.
But generally, I think you are correct that the absence of any substantive allegations before 1966 argues against such connections.
oo
David
From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: Who Speaks for Clay Shaw? (revised)
Date: 18 Dec 1998 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <19981218014916.03083.00001016@ng145.aol.com>
Martin Shackelford wrote:
>Jack Martin was, among other things, a murderer wanted in
>Texas under his real name.
Martin's real name was Edward Stewart Suggs, and he was wanted in Dallas in 1952 for questioning about a murder. The warrant was dropped in 1953. After impersonating a federal officer in December 1956, his wife Paula Mae forced him to enter Charity Hospital for treatment for alcoholism. Martin's various statements on the JFK matter are rambling and confusing.
oo
David
From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: Jack Martin & Dean Andrews
Date: 25 Aug 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <19990825093221.09318.00003559@ng-ca1.aol.com>
Jerry:
Yep, pretty much right on.
>[Jack Martin] was a truly malevolent man
One has to follow many of the Ferrie leads back to the source, Martin, read his various interviews and writings, to find that both before and after the assassination, this was a guy who HATED Ferrie, who went out of his way to try to harm him, whose information was confused and almost never checked out. I ask all those who romanticize Martin to withhold judgment until you have a chance to read the Martin materials. He was no Jack Lemmon. He was a guy who had little of substance to add, who seemed to relish the role of a "Deep Throat" in the Ferrie matter.
>When a deranged DA began to follow the scent layed down by these two
Here's where we part company: I think Garrison sincerely believed that he had solved the assassination, and he got caught up in this romanticism. He accepted uncritically any information that supported his theories, and he was strikingly innaccurate when it came to the details of the case. This romantic zeal and lack of attention to detail did cause him to inflict unnecessary harm to others.
>David Ferrie fell victim
Ferrie was the unsung victim of this case. Dave Reitzes has pointed out that, while there are those who rightly focus on the injustice to Clay Shaw, there are few who are objective about Ferrie.
While Ferrie is admired by his friends for his intellect, humor and unselfishness, there is an unsavory side to him. He imposed his sexuality on underage boys. He had a big mouth and said things that later came back to haunt him. He did not take care with his personal cleanliness. He was drawn to pornography and may have experimented with drugs. For these reasons, Ferrie made (and still makes) an easy villain/victim.
Perhaps due to his homosexuality, his outspokenness, and those terrible booking photos, people are ready to believe anything about him and make wildly inflated charges about him. He has become a cartoon exaggeration.
Example: Ferrie was a rabid right-wing violent political extremist. The truth is that Ferrie was a cold-war liberal: a supporter of civil rights, sound fiscal policy, the space program, but convinced that communism in Cuba posed a threat to the United States. He had about a one-year association with the local chapter of a CIA-backed anti-Castro group, and on one occasion helped the group obtain armaments. He stupidly accepted the notion that JFK's vacillation on air cover for the Bay of Pigs invasion was the sole cause of that disaster, and even more stupidly made public comments to this effect. Add a dose of Jack Martin, a brief encounter with Oswald in the mid-1950s, and mix well. Add Jim Garrison, and Ferrie becomes the perfect suspect. Add the unusual timing of his death (perhaps hastened by the investigation), and you have a villain for the ages.
Ferrie was not the perfect guy his friends say he was, but he was not the exaggerated villain his detractors say he was.