Posts by David Blackburst and John McAdams
From: 6489mcadamsj@vms.csd.mu.edu (John McAdams)
Date: 6/4/99 1:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <37575cac.11300416@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>
From page 49 of THE GARRISON CASE by Milton Brener:
[quote on]
In the summer of 1961 Ferrie was arrested, though never convicted, for attempted crime against nature with a juvenile. Arrested with him was Martens. Apparently, the basis of Martens's arrest was nothing more serious than his presence in Ferrie's company. In September, Martens moved to Lafayette to continue his music studies at the University of Southwest Louisiana.
In October, 1961, Ferrie's brief Cuban adventure ended. Carlos Bringuier, a Cuban expatriate and attorney, asked Smith if he might meet with Ferrie; for from the things he had heard, said Bringuier, he did not think that association with Ferrie would do Smith or the Cuban cause any good. Shortly thereafter, Smith took Bringuier to Ferrie's house. Smith, Bringuier, Ferrie, and two young boys were present. Smith and Bringuier stayed but five, minutes. Bringuier came away convinced that Arcacha Smith should have nothing more to do with Ferrie and he so advised Smith. Ferrie's association with the group ended.
In February, 1962, the Crusade to Free Cuba disbanded. Undoubtedly, a major contributing factor was the dismal failure of the Bay of Pigs invasion. Whatever the cause, the group had accomplished little, fell to bickering, and the small group of prominent New Orleans conservatives left in disgust.
Shortly after the group disbanded, Smith, in considerable disfavor with the Cuban community, left New Orleans for Texas, settling first in Houston and ultimately in Dallas.
The activities of the Cuban community in New Orleans, if there were any, through the balance of 1962 and early 1963 apparently have left little impression on the memories of those close to the scene. There remains no evidence of any activity of significance, and such conjecture as has been forthcoming has made no mention of specific ventures. Through 1962 and 1963, Ferrie was frequently to be seen at the New Orleans Lakefront Airport and remained active in the Civil Air Patrol Unit through the beginning of 1963. He also performed investigative work for Bannister. Though Ferrie may have retained a friendship with some of the Cubans, he was distrusted and disliked by others.
[Quote off]
.John
The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Subject: Re: Dave Ferrie and the Cubans
From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Date: 6/4/99 9:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <19990604091746.04750.00000415@ng-cj1.aol.com>
Atlasrecrd wrote:
> Why should we believe this person's [Milton Brener's] version of the events
in N.O.?
>
> How do we know he doesn't have an axe to grind?
>
All I can add is that I have acquired numerous documents, contemporaneous and later, relating the Cubans in New Orleans, and they dovetail with Brener's account. Such known Ferrie acquaintences as Sergio Arcacha Smith, Carlos Quiroga, Carlos Bringuier, Luis Ravel and others agree that Ferrie's August 1961 morals arrests substatially curtailed Ferrie's anti-Castro activities, and helped cause Arcacha to be deposed as local head of the FRD/CRC. Jim Garrison once made reference to Arcacha and Ferrie being deposed by early 1962. While there is much documentation of Ferrie's anti-Castro activism in late 1960 and early 1961, there is very little verifyable information on such activities after early 1962.
oo
Dave
From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: Garrison witnesses (was Ferrie and Del Valle . . .)
Date: 20 Mar 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <19990320145312.23398.00000393@ng-cf1.aol.com>
Jim Hargrove wrote:
>Perry Russo was interviewed by Bill Bankston of the State-Times newspaper, a
>summary of which appeared about three weeks later in the Morning-Advocate:
>"On two occassions, Russo said, he saw Ferrie in the company of Spanish
>speaking individuals dressed in green fatigue uniforms. They wore helmets,
>Russo said. [. . . .] The friend told Russo that he was training with Ferrie
>in jungle warfare 'to help bring about more democratic government.'
Certainly Ferrie was involved with several Cubans - in the 1961-2 period - with whom he hoped to foment a counterrevolution in Cuba. But Russo's quote does not chronologically connect Ferrie with the 1963 Mandeville area training camp.
>Please cite your
>source that "none of the participants there [at the Mandeville camp]
>remember him [Ferrie]."
My principal source would be an interview I conducted with Victor Paneque, who was the MDC trainer at the camp. I will find the tape and transcribe the relevant portion. My notes indicate that Paneque did all the training, did not ever see Ferrie at the camp, and ascertained (in 1967) that nobody else there had seen him.
In NODA interviews, Laureano Batista Falla (2/5/67) said there were no English-speaking people at the camp except Ricardo Davis and Fernando Fernandez. Angel Vega (2/5/67) said he never saw Arcacha or "Lindbergh" (NODA code name for Ferrie) at the camp, that the only other Americans he saw there were the delaBarres.
Ricardo Davis, who helped organize the MDC camp, gave a joint interview with Arcacha to Holland McCombs of Time (3/21/67). Both told McCombs that "Arcacha and Ferrie did not run any training camp, that Ferrie did not run any training camp..., that Ferrie did not concentrate on any one thing long enough to operate a training camp."
While Quiroga and Bringuier were not directly involved in the MDC camp, they both had heard that Ferrie had nothing to do with it. And there are other bits of evidence to this effect, which I will dig up.
>>The only verifyable istance of gunrunning on the part of Banister and Ferrie >>was the September 1961 Houma heist.
>I think that's probably true (although the date doesn't sound quite right)
There is a lot of confusion about the date of the heist, even on the NODA staff. Novel and Ehlinger both related the date as early September 1961 in 2/67 interviews with NODA and the FBI. Arcacha actually contacted the FBI on 9/18/61 and gave them a very redacted account of the recent incident.
The early September date squares nicely with Vernon Gerdes famous observation of Schlumberger boxes in Banister's office in the September-October 1961 time frame.
The August 21, 1961 date chosen by Garrison seems quite unlikely, as the Jefferson Parish deputies who swarmed through Ferrie's home the next morning on morals charges could hardly have missed the armaments stored there. And the "pre-Bay of Pigs" date is not supported by any of the principals.
>>The Frente Revolucionario Democratico was founded in July 1960, and Ferrie
>>was not involved.
>Dick Russell reports otherwise. How do you know Ferrie was not involved?
Ferrie was not active with the FRD in July 1960, by his own account becoming involved five months later. The group was formed in Miami(?) by the leaders of various anti-Castro groups, at a much higher level than Ferrie.
>Bitter, paramilitary exiles, intent on going to
>war against Castro, would ostracize a proven weapons provider because they
>didn't like the fact that he was gay?
Ferrie was not a proven weapons provider in August 1961. The morals arrests did him great harm among the exiles (see accounts by Quiroga and Bringuier), not because he was gay, but due to the bad publicity that the boys in question were minors. Homosexuality and pedophilia are two different things. Ferrie's difficulties also hastened the demise of Arcacha, whose rivals were looking for an excuse to depose him. And as Garrison himself relates, Ferrie and Arcacha were deposed by early 1962.
oo
David Blackburst
From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: PROBE folks, post the documents!
Date: 29 May 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <19990529014102.02110.00008160@ng-ca1.aol.com>
For those who are interested, there are CIA documents which describe in detail the training (early spring 1961) of underwater demolition teams for the invasion at the Belle Chasse station, not far from New Orleans. But I have never seen Ferrie linked to this specific CIA endeavor.
As for training camps, Ferrie conducted training for young cadets from his unauthorized "CAP" style unit, the Falcons, at Abita Springs in late 1960/early 1961. While 3 Cubans visited the area one time with Ferrie, the training was strictly for the American boys. (Ferrie was working fulltime for Eastern Air Lines at this time.) It has also been widely alleged that Ferrie trained exiles at the MDC camp near Lacombe/Mandeville in the summer of 1963, but all of the known particpants I have contacted or read interviews with deny this. One of the principal sources is Delphine Roberts.
Ferrie did tell his young friend Alexander H. Landry III that he had been contacted by the CIA in 1960, been knifed in a prisoner rescue in Cuba, was mad at JFK and CIA over the invasion, and that he watched films of the invasion at Arcacha's house. . . .
oo
David
From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: who killed Eladio Del Valle?
Date: 29 Jun 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <19990629090909.23763.00003615@ng-cf1.aol.com>
Atlasrecrd wrote:
>who killed Eladio Del Valle?
>just wondering if anyone knew.
>
Currently available records do not specify any particular perpetrators to delValle's murder. However contemporaneous police, FBI and news reports make note of his connection to black market activities, implying that Trafficante's crime syndicate may have somehow been connected.
The question of a connection to the JFK assassination rests upon delValle's alleged connection with David Ferrie. But nearly all published accounts of this track back to a newspaper article by delValle's friend, Diego Gonzales Tendedera. There is no corroboration for Tendedera's information, and at least parts of his story are questionable. The relationship as reported probably took place in late 1960-early 1961, but the claim that Ferrie and delValle were together every day for a sixth month period seems to conflict with Ferrie's work record with Eastern Air Lines. None of the thousands of documents I have found relating to Ferrie mention delValle, and none of his friends seem to remember him. I would be much more comfortable with Tendedera's story of a Ferrie/delValle relationship if it were confirmed by some other credible first-hand source.
oo
David
From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: Did Ferrie "fly missions over Cuba?"
Date: 05 Mar 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <20000305044552.03192.00000329@ng-fn1.aol.com>
Daniel Hopsicker wrote:
>> >Did Ferrie "fly missions over Cuba?" is a question on par with asking if
>> >the pope is catholic. the answer, in both cases, is 'of course.' as one
>> >who has just spent a year in louisiana writing a book about cia agent dave
>> >ferrie's most illustrius recruit i am amazed at how much i was able to
>> >find out about ferrie that has never seen the light of day.
For the reasons set forth below, I would be reluctant to accept such speculations without hearing the evidence direct from the sources.
I have spent many years examining the life of David Ferrie and his role in the New Orleans milieu. I have conducted numerous interviews with primary sources and obtained or read many thousands of pages of documents relating to these matters.
Ferrie's period of activity with the Cubans was very brief, beginning in late 1960 and abruptly ending in the fall of 1961 after his morals arrests. Throughout most of this period, his whereabouts are established by his employment and other records. He had very little opportunity to fly any missions.
Ferrie's connection with the CIA was very tangential. He volunteered to work with the local branch of the CIA-organized FRD for, as noted, a very brief period of time. He did tell a friend of an earlier contact with the CIA, but several of his friends strongly doubted portions of the story. Ferrie's financial and social difficulties reveal no indication of any secret backing. He did not benefit financially, and nobody intervened to prevent his severe legal difficulties. He died an impoverished broken man. A very close friend of many years said that Ferrie was given to braggadocio, but was not engaged in any secret activities.
Since Ferrie's death, a few people have come forward to allege various tales of Ferrie's involvement in such activities, but none of them pan out, none seem consistent with the provable record. (One man claimed to be Ferrie's roommate, to whom he confessed a role in CIA activities and the assassination. The man proved to be unfamiliar with the streets of New Orleans and the layout of Ferrie's apartment. When I asked if Ferrie had his moustache when the man knew him, he eagerly said yes and told tales about the ticklish moustache. Not only did Ferrie never grow a moustache: He was UNABLE to do so.) So I consider such sources subject to some degree of verification.
There are many untrue allegations about Ferrie that are widely accepted by the assassination community. Careful researchers should regard them with some degree of caution.
oo
David Blackburst
From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: Did Ferrie "fly missions over Cuba?"
Date: 13 Feb 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <20000213103847.01365.00000622@ng-ft1.aol.com>
Peter Fokes wrote:
>A Cuban official said:
>
>they needed DAVID FERRIE as the pilot on
>these flights."
Having looked very closely into the career of David Ferrie, while I cannot rule out the possibility that he may have made such flights at some juncture, I make the following observations:
1) Prior to September 1961, Ferrie was flying for Eastern Air Lines three times a week from New Orleans to Houston and other Texas cities, including two overnighters. There would not have been a great deal of opportunity for him to have made such flights from Florida. (And the flight log on his Stinson contains no indication of any such flights.)
2) Prior to April 1961, Ferrie was not fully accepted as an active participant by the anti-Castro Cubans.
3) After his August 1961 morals arrests, Ferrie was soon ostracized by the Cubans. Further, his Stinson soon entered a long period of inactivity.
Ferrie denied ever going to Cuba. However, he did tell a friend about one sojourn into Cuba in August 1960, which he said was for the CIA. He said he was wounded in the process, but his friends doubted this.
So the assertion that Ferrie made "flights" or extensive flights into Cuba is not strongly supported by the evidence.
oo
David
From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: Did Ferrie Lie To The FBI?
Date: 31 Jul 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <20000731111450.20949.00001938@ng-ch1.aol.com>
Bishopm wrote:
>Good, because THIS post omits the valuable information supplied by
>Voebel, Paradis, Marguerite O., et al. They all spoke about a CAP-era
>convergence of the Oswald-Ferrie orbits.
The point I was making in that short paragraph is that Ferrie did not categorically deny recollecting Oswald, and as the days passed and he talked to others in the CAP, he came to concede that he had been in that CAP squadron at the same time. And the Ciravolo picture now confirms that for us. (Voebel was one of Ferrie's sources: Paradis seems to recall Oswald in the Lakefront Squadron, which Oswald never joined, only visited. Marguerite makes no refernce to Ferrie.)
>Latter-day witnesses claiming
>a similar circa '63 convergence of orbits aren't easily dismissed
>either.
True, and I've always conceded that. But SOME of those claiming a 1963 relationship are not credible at all. We have on one side of the equation, a convining denial by Ferrie that he knew Oswald in 1963, and on the other hand, a few witnesses who claim that the two were acquainted in 1963. The evidence is not conclusive.
>The claims of Mrs. Garner and her next-door neighbour also
>tend to impeach Ferrie's denials. If there weren't SOME chance that
>Oswald had Ferrie's library card, what would have so spooked Ferrie
>that he made a bee-line straight over there?
I have addressed this before: Presume for purposes of argument that Ferrie was truthful, that he did not recall Oswald. What did Ferrie know, and when did he know it? (Keep in mind that we know much more about the matter now, than Ferrie did then.)
Ferrie is investigated and detained by police on allegations that he had something to do with Oswald. He is told that there are allegations that his library card was found among Oswald's posessions. Ferrie does not know the source of the story (Jack Martin), nor does he know when or where the card is supposed to have been found. In one of Oswald's apartments? (Ferrie also would not have known WHERE Oswald lived and WHEN.) He is released from custody and tries to track down the CAP allegation, and is told by Voebel that Oswald had been in his CAP unit, and may have attended a party at Ferrie's home. He hears on the news that Oswald lived in aparment rented by Garner and Eames. He goes to them to inquire if investigators had found the alleged card there. It is possible to view this act as a ruse, but it is also possible to view this act as the frantic effort of an innocent man, who does not know all the detail we now know, to try to track down the allegation.
>All of this presupposes that Ferrie was so stung by his excommunication
>that he ceased to care about both the people and their cause
Ferrie was ostracised by nearly everybody after his arrests on morals charges. But he did tell the FBI he occasionally saw Arcacha after being kicked out the FRD/CRC.
>that he
>was so removed he no longer gossiped about either the people or their
>cause while drinking coffee at Mancuso's; that Gill, Banister, Gatlin,
>et al, failed to mention any further CRC/FRD/Archaca developments
Ferrie didn't work in or near the building during that 5-month period, and may not have gone to Mancuso's. Gill had almost nothing to do with Arcacha. Banister and Ferrie did not become close until February 6, by Banister's account. There is no evidence that Ferrie ever associated with Gatlin.
>Even if, arguendo, Ferrie no longer played any personal role
>in the anti-Castro cause, how likely is it that he suddenly went blank
>or brain-dead on the subject?
You are assuming that during a period when he was not associated with that building, he MUST have spoken to somebody about it. The specific topic, that Arcacha had an office in that building for less than 5-months, may not have come up.
I am not saying that Ferrie absolutely did know of the address. But the simple chronology of his dealings with Arcacha and Banister suggests that it is possible that he was truthful that he did not associate that address with Arcacha.
David
From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: If Oswald Knew Banister, Et. Al
Date: 08 Aug 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <20000808104259.00547.00000098@ng-cg1.aol.com>
Atlasrecrd wrote:
>Sam Newman:
>"Arcacha was very close to Banister. David Ferrie was always in both offices.
>I think I recall seeing this (in a HSCA document?). Can you save me a search
through my files by identifying it?
I'm not sure which time period Newman is referring to: It can't be prior to
October, 1961, because Arcacha wasn't at 544 Camp until that time. It doesn't
seem likely that it was during the October 1961-February 1962 time period when
Arcacha WAS at 544 Camp, because Ferrie had been ostracized by - kicked out of
- Arcacha's group shortly after his August morals arrest. And Ferrie hadn't yet
become close to Banister. After February 1962, Ferrie WAS close to Banister,
but Arcacha had been out of the building for a couple of months.
So, there was no time overlap when Ferrie was active in the FRD, and a friend
of Banister's. And in fact, there was a gap of several months between the two
things, exactly the short period that the FRD operated out of 544 Camp. I don't
understand which time period Newman means.
David
From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: Did Ferrie Lie To The FBI?
Date: 31 Jul 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <20000731111450.20949.00001938@ng-ch1.aol.com>
Bishopm wrote:
>Good, because THIS post omits the valuable information supplied by
>Voebel, Paradis, Marguerite O., et al. They all spoke about a CAP-era
>convergence of the Oswald-Ferrie orbits.
The point I was making in that short paragraph is that Ferrie did not categorically deny recollecting Oswald, and as the days passed and he talked to others in the CAP, he came to concede that he had been in that CAP squadron at the same time. And the Ciravolo picture now confirms that for us. (Voebel was one of Ferrie's sources: Paradis seems to recall Oswald in the Lakefront Squadron, which Oswald never joined, only visited. Marguerite makes no refernce to Ferrie.)
>Latter-day witnesses claiming
>a similar circa '63 convergence of orbits aren't easily dismissed
>either.
True, and I've always conceded that. But SOME of those claiming a 1963 relationship are not credible at all. We have on one side of the equation, a convining denial by Ferrie that he knew Oswald in 1963, and on the other hand, a few witnesses who claim that the two were acquainted in 1963. The evidence is not conclusive.
>The claims of Mrs. Garner and her next-door neighbour also
>tend to impeach Ferrie's denials. If there weren't SOME chance that
>Oswald had Ferrie's library card, what would have so spooked Ferrie
>that he made a bee-line straight over there?
I have addressed this before: Presume for purposes of argument that Ferrie was truthful, that he did not recall Oswald. What did Ferrie know, and when did he know it? (Keep in mind that we know much more about the matter now, than Ferrie did then.)
Ferrie is investigated and detained by police on allegations that he had something to do with Oswald. He is told that there are allegations that his library card was found among Oswald's posessions. Ferrie does not know the source of the story (Jack Martin), nor does he know when or where the card is supposed to have been found. In one of Oswald's apartments? (Ferrie also would not have known WHERE Oswald lived and WHEN.) He is released from custody and tries to track down the CAP allegation, and is told by Voebel that Oswald had been in his CAP unit, and may have attended a party at Ferrie's home. He hears on the news that Oswald lived in aparment rented by Garner and Eames. He goes to them to inquire if investigators had found the alleged card there. It is possible to view this act as a ruse, but it is also possible to view this act as the frantic effort of an innocent man, who does not know all the detail we now know, to try to track down the allegation.
>All of this presupposes that Ferrie was so stung by his excommunication
>that he ceased to care about both the people and their cause
Ferrie was ostracised by nearly everybody after his arrests on morals charges. But he did tell the FBI he occasionally saw Arcacha after being kicked out the FRD/CRC.
>that he
>was so removed he no longer gossiped about either the people or their
>cause while drinking coffee at Mancuso's; that Gill, Banister, Gatlin,
>et al, failed to mention any further CRC/FRD/Archaca developments
Ferrie didn't work in or near the building during that 5-month period, and may not have gone to Mancuso's. Gill had almost nothing to do with Arcacha. Banister and Ferrie did not become close until February 6, by Banister's account. There is no evidence that Ferrie ever associated with Gatlin.
>Even if, arguendo, Ferrie no longer played any personal role
>in the anti-Castro cause, how likely is it that he suddenly went blank
>or brain-dead on the subject?
You are assuming that during a period when he was not associated with that building, he MUST have spoken to somebody about it. The specific topic, that Arcacha had an office in that building for less than 5-months, may not have come up.
I am not saying that Ferrie absolutely did know of the address. But the simple chronology of his dealings with Arcacha and Banister suggests that it is possible that he was truthful that he did not associate that address with Arcacha.
David
From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: Did Clay Shaw know David Ferrie?
Date: 06 Sep 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <20000905200728.15324.00001895@ng-mf1.aol.com>
Just FYI:
Ferrie's last tenure as a member of the Lakefront Airport Civil Air Patrol
began with ad hoc service from March 1958 to September 1959, and official
service as Executive Officer from September 1959 to June 1960. In that month,
Ferrie ran afoul of commanding officers at a CAP encampment, and walked out
rather than being forced out.
In October, 1960, Ferrie and a group of about a dozen former cadets formed a completely unofficial squadron, called the Metairie Falcon Cadet Squadron, or just the Falcons. The group held regular meetings on Friday nights and Sunday afternoons at the Eastern Air Lines terminal at Moisant Airport, but hung around together almost continually.
About a month after Ferrie's April 1961 arrests on morals charges, the Falcons dissolved.
David Blackburst