AFTER THE RECESS:
THE COURT: I believe the status of the trial is that the Defense wishes to traverse the predicate. You may proceed, Mr. Dymond. Call your first witness.
MR. DYMOND: Call Captain Curole.
LOUIS J. CUROLE, having been sworn and having testified previously, resumed the stand, and was examined and testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. DYMOND:
Q: Captain, for the record, what is your full name?
A: Louis James Curole.
Q: Would you spell that for the Reporter, please.
A: C-u-r-o-l-e.
BY THE COURT:
Q: Captain, the previous oath you took is still binding.
A: Yes, sir.
BY MR. DYMOND:
Q: Now, Captain, as of March 1, 1967, were you attached to the New Orleans Police Department?
A: Yes, sir, I was.
Q: What was your rank at that time?
A: I was a Lieutenant.
Q: And what was your assignment?
A: I was Platoon Commander at the Central Lockup.
Q: And what were your hours of duty on March 1, 1967?
A: 3:00 p.m. to 11:00 p.m.
Q: Were you on duty when this Defendant Clay Shaw was delivered to the Central Lockup --
A: Yes.
Q: -- by Mr. Louis Ivon?
A: Yes, sir, I was.
Q: You were. Was there a Sergeant Butzman who was on duty at that time as well?
A: Yes, sir. He was the Assistant Platoon Commander.
Q: Now, did you take any unusual precaution when Mr. Shaw was brought in, in connection with Sergeant Butzman?
A: Yes, sir. I assigned Sergeant Butzman to remain with Mr. Shaw until the fingerprinting was completed.
Q: You say you assigned Sergeant Butzman to remain with Mr. Shaw until the fingerprinting was completed, is that right?
A: Yes, that is correct, sir.
Q: Now, Captain Curole, are you familiar with the B of I room which is located in the Central Lockup building?
A: Yes, sir, I am.
Q: Is that the room in which the fingerprinting and mugging is done?
A: That is correct, sir.
Q: Are attorneys allowed in that room, Captain?
A: As a rule attorneys are not allowed in the Central Lockup.
Q: Now, are you acquainted with Mr. Edward Wegmann, one of the attorneys for Mr. Shaw?
A: Yes, sir, I am.
Q: Did you see Mr. Wegmann at the Central Lockup on March 1, 1967 when Mr. Shaw was delivered to the Lockup?
A: Yes, sir, I did.
Q: Was or wasn't Mr. Wegmann permitted to enter the B of I room, Captain?
A: No, sir, he was not.
Q: Upon whose instructions was he excluded from that room?
A: My instructions.
Q: Did he ever go into the room, Captain?
A: In the B of I room, sir?
Q: Right.
A: No, sir, he did not.
Q: He did not. Now, Captain, do you know whether Sergeant Butzman remained with Mr. Shaw during the entire booking, printing and mugging process?
A: I did not see it, I didn't remain there. He was assigned to him.
Q: Did you order him to do so?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Now, Captain, did Mr. Edward Wegmann express any desire to go into the B of I room on that night?
A: No, sir, he did not.
THE COURT: I didn't hear you.
THE WITNESS: No, sir, he didn't.
THE COURT: Speak a little louder.
THE WITNESS: All right, sir.
BY MR. DYMOND:
Q: Did you give any specific instructions as to staying out or going in, on that occasion to Mr. Wegmann?
A: I don't understand the question.
Q: Did you tell him that he could or could not go into the B of I room?
A: No, sir, I did not.
Q: Did you tell him whether attorneys were permitted in there?
A: No, sir, I did not.
THE COURT: Can you speak a little louder? You are merely whispering. Talk a little louder.
BY MR. DYMOND:
Q: Now, my question is, Captain, did you tell Mr. Wegmann whether he as an attorney
would be permitted to go in the B of I room while the fingerprinting and mugging was going on?
A: No, sir, I did not.
Q: You didn't give him any instructions along that line, is that right?
A: No, sir. I told Mr. Wegmann that he could see his client as soon as the fingerprinting was completed.
Q: I see. You told him that he could see the client as soon as the fingerprinting was completed, is that right?
A: That is correct, sir.
Q: By that, did you or did you not mean that he could not see his client during the fingerprinting process?
MR. ALCOCK: Object as leading, Your Honor.
THE COURT: I will permit the question under these circumstances. The Jury is out of the presence. I can understand what is going on.
A: When I asked Mr. Wegmann to leave, I asked him if he wanted to speak to his client. He said he did. I told him we would make his client available as soon as the fingerprinting was completed.
BY MR. DYMOND:
Q: I see. Did you or did you not ask Mr. Wegmann to leave the booking area, Captain?
A: Yes, sir, I did.
Q: Did he comply with your request?
A: Yes, he did, sir.
Q: And where did he go, sir?
A: Into the lobby.
Q: Into the lobby?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Did he remain there during the fingerprinting process, sir?
A: I don't know, sir; I didn't see him after he left the booking office.
Q: I see. Now, Captain, could you tell me what is a Field Arrest Report?
A: It is a five-part form which is filed by the arresting officer, which gives the Central Lockup the necessary information to book the prisoner.
Q: (Exhibiting document to witness) I show you what has been marked for identification "D-15," and I ask you whether you can identify that as the Field Arrest Report in connection with this Defendant.
MR. ALCOCK: Your Honor, to be consistent I am going to have to object at this time on the ground of relevancy. This has nothing to do with the predicate, and that is all we are concerned with at this time.
THE COURT: Mr. Dymond, would you try to pinpoint the time element to find out if it is germane and relevant to this?
MR. DYMOND: Yes, sir, I am going to do that.
THE COURT: I will permit it.
BY MR. DYMOND:
Q: Is that the Field Arrest Report in connection with Mr. Shaw, Captain?
A: Yes, it is.
(Whereupon, the document referred to by Counsel was duly marked for identification as "Exhibit D-15.")
BY MR. DYMOND:
Q: Now, Captain, according to Police procedures, when is this Field Arrest Report made
out?
A: Usually at the time of arrest.
Q: At the time of arrest?
A: Usually before the person is brought in. However, some officers have filled them in at the Central Lockup.
Q: (Exhibiting document to witness) I now show you, Captain, a document which has been marked for identification "D-16," and I ask you what that document is.
A: This is the original copy of the Arrest Register.
(Whereupon, the document referred to by Counsel was duly marked for identification as "Exhibit D-16.")
BY MR. DYMOND:
Q: Now, from where does the information for this Arrest Register come, where is it ob-
tained?
MR. ALCOCK: Your Honor, again what does this have to do with the predicate? If this were the case-in-chief it might be relevant, but on the predicate it is irrelevant.
MR. DYMOND: If the Court please, I am still talking about prior to the fingerprinting.
THE COURT: You are talking about prior to the fingerprinting?
MR. DYMOND: I am talking about prior to the fingerprinting, correct.
A: From the Field Arrest Report.
Q: Now, Captain, after this Arrest Register Sheet is made out, what is done with whatever copies there are of this document?
MR. ALCOCK: Objection. What has that got to do with whether or not this man gave a statement freely or voluntarily?
MR. DYMOND: If the Court please, I am still talking about prior.
MR. ALCOCK: I don't care when he is talking about, that is irrelevant to the issue.
MR. DYMOND: If the Court please --
THE COURT: Don't interrupt Mr. Dymond when he is speaking.
MR. ALCOCK: I was making the objection, I was the one interrupted, not Mr. Dymond.
THE COURT: State your objection.
MR. ALCOCK: My objection is that it is totally irrelevant to the issue of whether or not this man gave a statement, if he gave one, freely and voluntarily.
THE COURT: As I understand, Mr. Dymond's question of Captain Curole was what happened to the copies of this original.
MR. DYMOND: That is correct, and we are still talking about prior to the time of fingerprinting, in an effort to follow you Honor's ruling.
THE COURT: I don't know what is in these reports. If I look at them maybe I can understand what you are driving at. May I see them?
MR. DYMOND: I would be glad to show them to the Court, surely.
MR. ALCOCK: The State, Your Honor, would have no objection to their introduction in the case-in-chief. We just feel this is premature, that is all.
MR. DYMOND: If the Court please, there is a relevancy which I will state after the Court peruses the documents.
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