Judyth Vary Baker: The Story So Far
(According to Judyth Vary Baker, Martin Shackelford,
and Howard Platzman, Ph.D.)

Copyright © 2004-2017 by David Reitzes

Martin Shackelford, Judyth Baker, Judyth friend Anna Lewis Vincent, and Howard Platzman

 

Note: Howard Platzman was co-author (with Judyth Baker) of Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy, various drafts of which were submitted to assassination researchers and prospective publishers, circa 2000. Martin Shackelford was described by Platzman in 2002 as Judyth's lead researcher, and contributed the Afterword to Judyth Vary Baker's book, Lee Harvey Oswald: The True Story of the Accused Assassin of President John F. Kennedy by His Lover. "I'm the collaborator," Platzman once stated, "Martin is our Deep Throat."⁽¹⁾

 

John McAdams's definitive essay on Judyth Baker at the Kennedy Assassination Home Page highlights many of the problems with those portions of Judyth's story that had been made publicly available as of the article's composition in 2003; but I'd like to emphasize a few more of the contradictions inherent in Judyth's various accounts to date.

 

Judyth Vary Baker had a love affair with Lee Harvey Oswald in 1963. She can prove this, because she knows intimate details about Oswald that only his lover would know; for example, he was not circumcised.⁽²⁾

Judyth Vary Baker had a love affair with Lee Harvey Oswald in 1963. She can prove this, because she knows intimate details about Oswald that only his lover would know; for example, he was circumcised.⁽³⁾

Judyth Vary Baker worked for the CIA on an anti-Castro assassination project, and she can prove it.⁽⁴⁾

Judyth was never an employee or agent of the CIA, and never said she was.⁽⁵⁾

Judyth was a science prodigy in Florida, but she moved to New Orleans because she was in love with Robert Baker.⁽⁶⁾

Judyth was a science prodigy in Florida, but internationally renowned surgeon and medical researcher Alton Ochsner offered her a chance to work in New Orleans with Dr. Mary Sherman. Judyth then set about persuading her boyfriend, Robert Baker, to move to New Orleans with her.⁽⁷⁾

It was due to a series of events involving her relationship with Dr. Mary Sherman that Judyth came to meet Lee Harvey Oswald.⁽⁸⁾

Judyth and Oswald's meeting had nothing to do with Mary Sherman.⁽⁹⁾

Judyth was introduced to Lee Oswald one day in New Orleans.⁽¹⁰⁾

No one introduced Judyth to Oswald, they met purely by chance.⁽¹¹⁾

Or possibly not.⁽¹²⁾

Judyth began work on an anti-Castro project with Oswald, David Ferrie, and Mary Sherman, but only after being reassured that the project was sanctioned by the CIA or the U.S. government.⁽¹³⁾

Judyth began working on the project before learning that it was being run by the CIA.⁽¹⁴⁾

Oswald worked for the CIA on an anti-Castro assassination project (and others), and Judyth can prove it.⁽¹⁵⁾

Oswald may not have worked for the CIA after all.⁽¹⁶⁾

No, of course Oswald worked for the CIA. He was "on loan" from another agency, though, although he refused to tell Judyth which one.⁽¹⁷⁾

Maybe.⁽¹⁸⁾

Oswald worked for the CIA. He was "on loan" from the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI).⁽¹⁹⁾

It is assumed that Oswald worked for ONI.⁽²⁰⁾

Oswald was trained by the ONI and loaned to the CIA.⁽²¹⁾

Oswald was trained by the CIA, with ONI as a cover.⁽²²⁾

Oswald worked for the FBI, and got paid by the CIA.⁽²³⁾

Oswald worked for the FBI, and apparently got paid by the CIA.⁽²⁴⁾

Oswald worked for the FBI and the CIA, and actually got paid by both.⁽²⁵⁾

Oswald worked for U.S. Customs.⁽²⁶⁾

Oswald also worked closely with the Secret Service on matters of presidential protection; he helped assess potential security concerns for John F. Kennedy's trip to Dallas.⁽²⁷⁾

Oswald was a bridge between the Mafia and the CIA.⁽²⁸⁾

Oswald might also have worked for Robert F. Kennedy.⁽²⁹⁾

A photograph published in the Warren Commission Report shows Judyth standing next to Oswald.⁽³⁰⁾

There are no photographs depicting both Judyth and Oswald, and Judyth has never claimed otherwise.⁽³¹⁾

There is (or was) a second photograph depicting both Judyth and Oswald.⁽³²⁾

Judyth was free to carry on an affair with Oswald and work on the anti-Castro plot because the conspirators had arranged to get her husband, Robert Baker, a job that required his prolonged absence from home.⁽³³⁾

Robert Baker got a job that required his prolonged absence from home because he himself had requested such a position. The conspirators had nothing to do with his job.⁽³⁴⁾

Well, the conspirators might have had something to do with Robert Baker's job.⁽³⁵⁾

The conspirators kept Robert Baker away from home for prolonged periods, but only so long as he let them, which greatly upset Judyth.⁽³⁶⁾

Judyth met Jack Ruby only once.⁽³⁷⁾

Judyth met Jack Ruby twice.⁽³⁸⁾

According to Dave Ferrie, Jack Ruby and J.D. Tippit were friends. Tippit was part of the conspiracy, and was supposed to drive Oswald to Redbird Airport.⁽³⁹⁾

Judyth never said anything about J.D. Tippit. The only account of hers that even mentions Tippit is one authored by her former agent.⁽⁴⁰⁾

Jack Ruby knew a police officer named Tippit, but it was not J.D. Tippit.⁽⁴¹⁾

As for the Tippit story, Judyth's impression is that there was confusion as to which Tippit was the one who was shot following the assassination. Ruby did know an officer named Tippit.⁽⁴²⁾

Judyth speculates, however, that perhaps Oswald and Tippit knew each other and got along well. Tippit had children, after all, and Lee loved children. Later she heard reports of suspicious goings-on at Redbird Airport in Dallas.⁽⁴³⁾

It is a fact that Oswald and J.D. Tippit were friends, and Judyth stands as a witness to this.⁽⁴⁴⁾

Oswald probably knew Tippit. Certainly, Oswald knew Tippit. But Judyth is not a witness to this.⁽⁴⁵⁾

On November 22, 1963, Judyth was chilled to learn that police officer J.D. Tippit had been killed in the Dallas suburb of Oak Cliff, because she knew that both Oswald and "Sparky" (Jack Ruby) lived in Oak Cliff. Could Oswald have killed Officer Tippit? She couldn't imagine it. Then she could. Then she couldn't.⁽⁴⁶⁾

Judyth was chilled to learn that a police officer -- whose name she didn't initially catch -- had been killed in Oak Cliff, because she knew that both Oswald and "Sparky" lived in Oak Cliff. Could Oswald have killed the officer? She couldn't imagine it. Then she could. Then she couldn't.⁽⁴⁷⁾

Judyth was chilled to learn that J.D. Tippit had been killed in the Dallas suburb of Oak Cliff, because she knew that Oswald's apartment was in Oak Cliff. Could Oswald have killed Officer Tippit? Perhaps in self-defense.⁽⁴⁸⁾

There is no possible way that Oswald would have ever killed Tippit, because Tippit was his friend. Period.⁽⁴⁹⁾

David Atlee Phillips was one of Oswald's CIA handlers.⁽⁵⁰⁾

David Atlee Phillips may not have been one of Oswald's CIA handlers.⁽⁵¹⁾

Oswald knew Phillips by name.⁽⁵²⁾

Oswald did not know Phillips by name.⁽⁵³⁾

Oswald knew his handler as "Bishop."⁽⁵⁴⁾

Oswald did not know his handler as "Bishop."⁽⁵⁵⁾

"Bishop" was Phillips.⁽⁵⁶⁾

"Bishop" and Phillips may have been two different people.⁽⁵⁷⁾

Oswald said that Phillips was "Bishop."⁽⁵⁸⁾

Oswald never said that Phillips was "Bishop."⁽⁵⁹⁾

Oswald knew his handler as "Mr. B."⁽⁶⁰⁾

Oswald did not know his handler as "Mr. B."⁽⁶¹⁾

"Mr. B" was Oswald's personal nickname for his handler.⁽⁶²⁾

"Mr. B" may have been a widely known nickname for Oswald's handler within the CIA.⁽⁶³⁾

"Mr. B" was Phillips.⁽⁶⁴⁾

"Mr. B" may not have been Phillips.⁽⁶⁵⁾

"Mr. B" was someone else.⁽⁶⁶⁾

"Mr. B" may have been two different people, one of whom may have been Phillips.⁽⁶⁷⁾

"Mr. B" was also "Bishop."⁽⁶⁸⁾

"Mr. B" may not have been "Bishop."⁽⁶⁹⁾

Oswald knew his handler as "Mr. Benson" or "Mr. Benton" (Judyth can't remember which anymore).⁽⁷⁰⁾

Oswald's handler used the name "Benton" and the name "Benson."⁽⁷¹⁾

Oswald called his handler "Mr. B" because his handler had initally introduced himself as "Benson," but later slipped up and called himself "Benton."⁽⁷²⁾

Oswald called his handler "Mr. B" because his handler had initally introduced himself as "Benson," but later slipped up and called himself "Bishop."⁽⁷³⁾

"Mr. Benson" or "Mr. Benton" was Phillips.⁽⁷⁴⁾

"Mr. Benson" or "Mr. Benton" may have been somebody else.⁽⁷⁵⁾

"Mr. B," "Mr. Bishop," and "Mr. Benson" or "Mr. Benton" were all the same person.⁽⁷⁶⁾

"Mr. B," "Mr. Bishop," and "Mr. Benson" or "Mr. Benton" may have been at least two different people.⁽⁷⁷⁾

Judyth (or possibly Oswald and Judyth both) overheard someone at the Reily company say that Phillips was "Bishop."⁽⁷⁸⁾

It was Oswald, not Judyth, who overheard someone at the Reily company say that Phillips was "Bishop;" Judyth was waiting in a car outside.⁽⁷⁹⁾

Either way, Oswald's handler was named Mr. Benson, Mr. Bishop, or David Atlee Phillips.⁽⁸⁰⁾

Phillips, Benson, Bishop, Bender . . . what difference does it make?⁽⁸¹⁾

Judyth met Guy Banister just once.⁽⁸²⁾

Judyth met Guy Banister twice.⁽⁸³⁾

Guy Banister was a CIA operative.⁽⁸⁴⁾

Guy Banister was not a CIA operative, and Judyth never said he had anything to do with the CIA.⁽⁸⁵⁾

Guy Banister was a CIA asset. He had ties to the CIA.⁽⁸⁶⁾

Or, if not the CIA, at least the U.S. government.⁽⁸⁷⁾

Judyth was introduced to Clay Shaw on one occasion, saw him from a distance on another, and spoke with him once on the phone. Shaw paid for some of her hotel trysts with Oswald.⁽⁸⁸⁾

Judyth simply saw Clay Shaw on two occasions.⁽⁸⁹⁾

Judyth simply met Clay Shaw one time.⁽⁹⁰⁾

Judyth did not know Clay Shaw.⁽⁹¹⁾

Judyth knew Carlos Marcello, who affectionately referred to her as "That Little Thing." She and Oswald met with him personally, he picked up the tab for many of their dinners out, and it was due to his influence that she was never murdered by the conspirators who killed John F. Kennedy.⁽⁹²⁾

Judyth did not know Carlos Marcello, and she has never claimed that she did.⁽⁹³⁾

Oswald discussed Richard Case Nagell with Judyth in some detail, informing her he knew that Nagell, whom he referred to as one of his "doppelgangers," "had purposely gotten himself arrested for fear of being set up as a patsy."⁽⁹⁴⁾

Oswald may have never discussed Nagell with Judyth, and anyone who thinks Judyth has referred to Richard Case Nagell in her writings is only making an assumption.⁽⁹⁵⁾

Oswald never discussed Nagell with Judyth. If Nagell "was ever connected to Lee Oswald," Judyth writes, "it's news to me."⁽⁹⁶⁾

Judyth's mentor was famed surgeon and humanitarian Dr. Alton Ochsner. For a time she worked for Ochsner.⁽⁹⁷⁾

Judyth never worked for Alton Ochsner and never claimed to. They had no formal relationship.⁽⁹⁸⁾

Clay Shaw was closely involved in the anti-Castro plot with Ochsner and the others.⁽⁹⁹⁾

Clay Shaw was not closely involved in the anti-Castro plot with Ochsner and the others.⁽¹⁰⁰⁾

Guy Banister and Clay Shaw were both plotters.⁽¹⁰¹⁾

Guy Banister and Clay Shaw were not plotters, and Judyth never said they were.⁽¹⁰²⁾

The plan was to inject Castro with deadly cancer cells and let him die a natural death from cancer.⁽¹⁰³⁾

The plan was to inject Castro with deadly cancer cells so it would appear he died a natural death from cancer.⁽¹⁰⁴⁾

The plan was to kill Castro with a combination of cancer injections and X-ray radiation.⁽¹⁰⁵⁾

The plan was to kill Castro with a combination of cancer injections, X-ray radiation, and chemotherapy.⁽¹⁰⁶⁾

The serum in which the cancer cells were placed included a virus that could knock out the immune system, thus enhancing the strength of the already powerful cancer cells. This material -- scraped from the kidneys of sick monkeys -- was, in fact, the AIDS virus.⁽¹⁰⁷⁾

The serum in which the cancer cells were placed included a virus that could knock out the immune system, thus enhancing the strength of the already powerful cancer cells. This material -- scraped from the kidneys of sick monkeys -- was, in fact, a precursor to the AIDS virus.⁽¹⁰⁸⁾

The serum in which the cancer cells were placed included a virus that could knock out the immune system, thus enhancing the strength of the already powerful cancer cells. This material -- scraped from the kidneys of sick monkeys -- was, in fact, Simian Virus 40 (SV-40), unrelated to the AIDS virus.⁽¹⁰⁹⁾

Judyth knows first-hand "what really happened" during Oswald's alleged trip to Clinton, Louisiana, because she was there.⁽¹¹⁰⁾

Judyth knows only second-hand what happened in Clinton, because she wasn't there.⁽¹¹¹⁾

Oswald, Dave Ferrie, and Clay Shaw were in Clinton, Louisiana, on (probably) August 23, 1963.⁽¹¹²⁾

Oswald, Dave Ferrie, and Clay Shaw were in Clinton, Louisiana, on August 29, 1963. The date is easily determined because it was the same day Martin Luther King, Jr., led his famous march on Washington, D.C.⁽¹¹³⁾

Oswald, Dave Ferrie, and Clay Shaw were in Clinton, Louisiana, awaiting the arrival of a prisoner from Angola Penitentiary. The prisoner would be taken to the mental hospital in Jackson and serve as a "guinea pig" for deadly injections.⁽¹¹⁴⁾

There may have been more than one "guinea pig" brought from Angola.⁽¹¹⁵⁾

There were several "guinea pigs" brought from Angola. These were unwitting "volunteers," which Judyth protested to Dr. Ochsner.⁽¹¹⁶⁾

There was actually a whole convoy of unwitting "guinea pigs" brought from Angola.⁽¹¹⁷⁾

There was a convoy, all right, but only a single "guinea pig" in that convoy -- and he was not an unwitting subject.⁽¹¹⁸⁾

Judyth and Oswald had no idea any prisoners would be used as unwitting "guinea pigs," and therefore bore no responsibility for any prisoners who were murdered in this fashion.⁽¹¹⁹⁾

Judyth and Oswald knew full well that prisoners would be used as unwitting "guinea pigs," and were heartsick over the plan.⁽¹²⁰⁾

When Oswald applied for his Mexican tourist visa in 1963, he listed his religion as "Catholic," because Judyth and Oswald intended to later get married in Mexico as Catholics, with the aid of a corrupt priest.⁽¹²¹⁾

When Oswald applied for his Mexican tourist visa in 1963, he listed his religion as "Catholic," because, while he was an atheist, listing his religion as "atheist" "would have looked commie-suspicious"; so, as his friends Judyth Baker and David Ferrie were Catholics, he listed his religion as "Catholic." Simple as that.⁽¹²²⁾

Oswald knew in advance about the assassination and, in an attempt to infiltrate and stop it, walked with eyes wide open into the "patsy" role.⁽¹²³⁾

Oswald did not know he was slated to be the "patsy."⁽¹²⁴⁾

Judyth was informed point blank by Alton Ochsner, prior to Oswald's trip to Mexico City, that both she and Oswald were expendable. She and Oswald knew precisely what this meant.⁽¹²⁵⁾

When Oswald couldn't get in touch with his CIA handler in Mexico City, he realized that he was expendable. He returned from Mexico City very down about this.⁽¹²⁶⁾

Oswald did not realize he was expendable until after his arrest on November 22, 1963.⁽¹²⁷⁾

Had Oswald escaped Dallas alive, he and Judyth planned (during their final conversation) to meet at a fine hotel in Cancun, Mexico, and get married. (It was subsequently pointed out by researchers David Lifton and Robert Chapman that Cancun was an uninhabited jungle in 1963; the resort city was conceived years later.)⁽¹²⁸⁾

Judyth never said that she and Oswald planned to meet in a fine hotel in Cancun! This is a malicious fabrication by David Lifton.⁽¹²⁹⁾

Judyth never said that she and Oswald planned to meet in a fine hotel in Cancun! This is a malicious fabrication by David Lifton and John McAdams.⁽¹³⁰⁾

Judyth never said that she and Oswald planned to meet in a fine hotel in Cancun! This is a malicious fabrication by Dave Reitzes. (Author's note: At the time Judyth was telling researchers like David Lifton and Mary Ferrell about herself, Oswald, and Cancun, I didn't even know who Judyth Baker was.)⁽¹³¹⁾

Judyth never said that she and Oswald planned to meet in a fine hotel in Cancun! This was erroneously inserted into her manuscript by co-author Howard Platzman.⁽¹³²⁾

No, it wasn't.⁽¹³³⁾

Judyth never said that she and Oswald planned to meet in a fine hotel in Cancun! This was erroneously inserted into her manuscript by her former agent, Peter Cox.⁽¹³⁴⁾

No, it wasn't.⁽¹³⁵⁾

Well, maybe it was.⁽¹³⁶⁾

Hypothetically speaking.⁽¹³⁷⁾

Okay, Judyth said it after all.⁽¹³⁸⁾

Judyth takes responsibility for saying it in her original manuscript, although the manuscript contains several phrases she does not remember writing.⁽¹³⁹⁾

Judyth said it, but she didn't mean it. She only meant Cancun as a rough geographical indicator of where the planned meeting-place actually had been.⁽¹⁴⁰⁾

What she meant was that she and Oswald planned to meet in a fine hotel in the rustic village of Kankun, Mexico.⁽¹⁴¹⁾

Actually, Cancun and the fine hotel had nothing to do with each other; some of the words were accidentally reversed in that particular draft of her manuscript.⁽¹⁴²⁾

Perhaps "fine hotel" was merely a joke on Oswald's part.⁽¹⁴³⁾

Of course "fine hotel" was merely a joke on Oswald's part, and Judyth knew that at the time.⁽¹⁴⁴⁾

Nevertheless, she and Oswald might have ended up staying in a fine hotel just the same.⁽¹⁴⁵⁾

Judyth and Oswald actually planned to meet in Chichen Itza, Mexico -- 125 miles from present-day Cancun.⁽¹⁴⁶⁾

Judyth and Oswald actually planned to meet in Merida, Mexico -- 200 miles from present-day Cancun.⁽¹⁴⁷⁾

Judyth and Oswald actually planned to meet in Belize, Mexico -- 350 miles from present-day Cancun. (Note: There was no Belize in 1963; it was called British Honduras until years later.)⁽¹⁴⁸⁾

Judyth and Oswald actually planned to meet in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico -- well over a thousand miles from present-day Cancun.⁽¹⁴⁹⁾

Judyth and Oswald actually planned to marry in the Cayman Islands of the Caribbean; Cancun was just a stopover.⁽¹⁵⁰⁾

Judyth and Oswald actually planned to marry in Mexico. Exploration of ancient Mayan ruins and a visit to a large city in the Yucatan were additional possible plans. After marriage, their final destination was probably going to be the Cayman Islands.⁽¹⁵¹⁾

Oswald and Judyth made no plans whatsoever about meeting in Cancun or anywhere else. During the conversation in question, Oswald merely "reminded me [Judyth] of all the wonderful places and things we wanted to see, and had dreamed about."⁽¹⁵²⁾

On November 22, 1963, Judyth and a number of her co-workers set up chairs and watched the assassination of John F. Kennedy on television. (Note: It was subsequently pointed out to Judyth that there was no live broadcast coverage of the assassination.)⁽¹⁵³⁾

Judyth and her co-workers absolutely did not watch the assassination of John F. Kennedy on television.⁽¹⁵⁴⁾

Oswald's friend George De Mohrenschildt knew about the assassination ahead of time, and had agreed to help take care of Oswald's wife and children afterwards.⁽¹⁵⁵⁾

George De Mohrenschildt had nothing to do with the assassination, and Judyth never said he did.⁽¹⁵⁶⁾

Oswald was part of an "abort team," whose mission was to stop the assassination. Judyth was never told who any other members of the team were.⁽¹⁵⁷⁾

Oswald knew William Robert "Tosh" Plumlee. Plumlee and Oswald were part of an "abort team" attempting to stop JFK's assassination.⁽¹⁵⁸⁾

Oswald may not have known Tosh Plumlee, but Dave Ferrie did, and Ferrie told Judyth that Plumlee was part of an "abort team."⁽¹⁵⁹⁾

No one told Judyth about Tosh Plumlee; she was merely speculating when she said that Oswald and Plumlee were part of an "abort team."⁽¹⁶⁰⁾

Oswald and Plumlee each thought they were part of an "abort team," but they both may have been lied to.⁽¹⁶¹⁾

If Oswald was part of an "abort team," it certainly wasn't in Dealey Plaza with Tosh Plumlee.⁽¹⁶²⁾

Oswald was part of an "abort team," and a member of that team is still alive and kicking: Tosh Plumlee.⁽¹⁶³⁾

Oswald knew exactly where and when the assassination was going to occur. He was slated to be one of the shooters in Dealey Plaza; were he to back out, he told Judyth, "They’d just get another gun in there to take the place of mine. If I stay, that will be one less bullet aimed at Kennedy....I might be able to fire a warning shot. That’s what I intend to do. The Secret Service will react. The Chief might react." Indeed, it was common knowledge throughout the Mafia, Judyth says, that such a warning shot had been fired.⁽¹⁶⁴⁾

Oswald did not expect the assassination to occur in Dealey Plaza, but rather at the International Trade Mart, where Kennedy was going to be speaking, or even at the airstrip at the LBJ Ranch, Kennedy's next stop after Dallas.⁽¹⁶⁵⁾

No, no, the first story was true: one less bullet aimed at Kennedy, warning shot, the whole nine yards.⁽¹⁶⁶⁾

Hmmm, maybe not. But there was an "abort team," and it was going to happen somewhere in Dallas.⁽¹⁶⁷⁾

"Abort team" or not, Oswald was out front watching the motorcade when the shooting occurred. (Or so Judyth's research tells her.)⁽¹⁶⁸⁾

Judyth's CIA records were expunged by President Ronald Reagan after she aided him in thwarting an assassination attempt. This was done specifically as a favor for her, and she was informed of it with a phone call.⁽¹⁶⁹⁾

Judyth alerted the FBI about a threat to President Ronald Reagan's life. She never heard anything of the matter again.⁽¹⁷⁰⁾

Oswald knew Senator Ted Cruz' father, Rafael, in New Orleans, and Judyth saw him twice. He was part of an anti-Castro sting operation, and Oswald referred to him as "Rafaolo" and "Rafael the Archangel." The idea that Oswald had hired him at random to help distribute Fair Play for Cuba fliers one day was only a cover story; he had actually been assigned to protect Oswald.⁽¹⁷¹⁾

Judyth knew nothing about the man in question; he was merely one of Oswald's two helpers that day, hired at the local employment office.⁽¹⁷²⁾

The man in question was an aspiring FBI agent; Oswald hired aspiring FBI agents to help him, believing they would refrain from talking about the Fair Play for Cuba demonstration.⁽¹⁷³⁾

 

Oswald with man identified by the National Enquirer as Rafael Cruz (center)

 

Judyth would have identified Cruz years before the National Enquirer purported to identify him in April 2016, if only someone had asked her about him.⁽¹⁷⁴⁾

Judyth discussed the man with Martin Shackelford. She said she didn't know him.⁽¹⁷⁵⁾

Judyth denies this.⁽¹⁷⁶⁾

Judyth Vary Baker and Lee Harvey Oswald worked together for the CIA in an anti-Castro project which included delivery of live biological weapons into Cuba, one of them aimed to kill Castro. Not only was Oswald an innocent man, he was framed in Dallas. Judyth can prove every word of this.⁽¹⁷⁷⁾

Judyth has no evidence for any of these claims. She has no evidence regarding anything related to the tragic death of President John F. Kennedy. She has only her word.⁽¹⁷⁸⁾

 

 

In 2010 Judyth published Me & Lee: How I Came to Know, Love and Lose Lee Harvey Oswald, allowing interested readers to scrutinize the latest version of her story and judge the quality of her evidence.

 

 

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NOTES:

1. Howard Platzman, alt.assassination.jfk post, September 22, 2002. In a newsgroup post of July 6, 2006, Martin Shackelford denied the accuracy of this statement: "Reitzes cites Howard as describing me as Judyth's 'lead researcher.' . . . I have never been Judyth's 'lead researcher' in any sense connected with the writing of her book." Platzman's actual words were: "And, let's be clear: Martin is not a co-author; he is our lead researcher, if you will." "Collaborator"/"Deep Throat": Howard Platzman, email to Peter Dale Scott, May 7, 2000, forwarded by Platzman to Martin Shackelford, Judyth Baker, and four other recipients on the same date.

2. Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes, cc'ed to Howard Platzman, October 6, 2000 (with all spelling and capitalization as in Judyth's original e-mail):

 

i am not interested in maing any money or peddling a book. I got an agent hoping to get the book i wrote--which put everything down in detail before i talked to anybody, and then had a professor keep a truncated version of it in caseanything happened to me--that shows i have never deviated from my account from the first. however, if people ask me something, i will add information. For exakple, Debra Conway asked me intimate questions about Lee, since she knew information from things i never knew existed. Example: was lee circumcized? (no).

 

In May 2010, Judyth claimed to researcher Gary Buell that I had fabricated the entire e-mail from which the above passage is quoted: "The email he cites is poorly written--does it really sound like me, Gary?" she asked. "Yes, I am afraid it does," Buell responded. "Judyth Baker is an intelligent and educated woman but most of her emails appear to be hurriedly written and contain numerous typos. She has also suffered from eye and other health problems."

Judyth subsequently changed her story, acknowledging that she had sent me the e-mail, but accusing me of altering it by adding the parenthetical word "no." (Judyth Vary Baker, posting to the Facebook group, "JFK Death: Good and Bad Writings?", April 29, 2012, 3:25 PM.)

Note also that the email in question was CC'ed by Judyth to her friend and collaborator, Howard Platzman. If I had altered the e-mail in any way before posting it online, I would have been doing so at the risk of Platzman exposing my deception. Platzman has never publicly said a word about the matter.

Ironically, I was not even the one who noticed this particular statement of Judyth's: it was longtime researcher Barb Junkkarinen, who found it in a collection of Judyth's e-mails I'd posted online, and wrote about it at a Web forum on the JFK assassination.

Barb herself came to my defense, writing, "I've known Dave online for many years. And no one who has known him and read his posts and collections over the years, either as a CT [conspiracy theorist] or LN [lone nutter: someone who believes that Oswald alone killed JFK], would ever cast aspersions on his character and would never believe he would ever ever alter evidence. Never. And for what reason?" (For archiving purposes, I reposted Barb's comments at the alt.assassination.jfk newsgroup.)

Researcher Stephen Roy, who had also known me online for years and had been specifically sought out by Howard Platzman to help vet Judyth's story, also defended me: "The suggestion that Reitzes would fake the email is also crazy, as even those who vehemently disagree with him on other issues have indicated. (Perhaps Howard Platzman, who was copied on the email, would let us know if it is identical to what he received.)"

Despite Judyth's claims of fabrication or alteration, she also told researcher Debra Conway (head of JFK Lancer Productions & Publications) that Oswald wasn't circumcised. As Judyth herself acknowledges, Conway told this to researcher Robert Chapman (see endnote #3).

In response to Judyth's original claim of forgery, researcher Gary Buell requested that I produce the complete text of the e-mail, and I did so. (In fact, I had posted it two years earlier to the alt.assassination.jfk newsgroup.) I reproduce it again here, with all spelling and capitalization as in Judyth's original:

 

Subj: Re: test
Date: 10/6/00 3:49:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From: Americanwebworks
To: Dreitzes
CC: Howpl

In a message dated 10/06/2000 12:20:44 AM Central Daylight Time, Dreitzes writes:

> Judyth,
>
> I would not object to receiving e-mail from you, and any such correspondence
> would be kept strictly confidential.
>
> Please be advised that I am trying to abstain from the current newsgroup
> brouhaha, as I don't think such exchanges are especially productive.
>
> Dave
==you're not the only one...I am just heartsick that i am not going to be given a chance to just say what happened in a simple way....OK, Dave, i believe you, because Howard has told me you're trsutworthy (oh, Debra conway told me David Lifton was trustworthy, too. She told me he had been working on a book . i know the name of the title of his book, even 9or at leats, what it was Jan.. 2000). Debra told me how many years he had worked on it, and how it would support much of what i had been talking about, in her opinion. She contacted robert Chapman, they talked about it, then told Lifton to contact me. i never initiated anything, but everything gets twisted on the newsgroup.

I did not know where to turn when i decided, after my last child left home, to write everything down.

i do not need books, and read nothing, just marina and lee because she was the other woman.

it was so outrageous, some of what i read in there, that all the old feelings came rushing back. i knew everything that had been going on, she knew almost nothing, and much was misrepresented. especially 9laughable) his being home all the time).

Anyway, i had avoided looking at everything. it literally made me sick. i had seen him shot on TV and had a blackout. When i tried to think about him, I had flashbacks to his murder. So i jusy blocked it out. Sometimes when i talk about it, which am doing for the first time, it is as if it happened to somebody else. And then suddenly i smell something, or hear a word or a name, if they ask me something, and suddenly, i can;t keep it far away any more, and then i start to cry. for this, mr. Lifton made fun of me.

I had no idea where to go at first.

my children? They were raised by me, four of them., as a single parent. three became valedictorians. i swore they would all have their chance to succeed, i was not going to impede them by blighting their names and lives with what had happened to me.

I was trained to become a research scientist. i attracted national attention when only sixteen by inventing a new metod to get magnesium out of seawater, and i was also doing cancer research with doctors trained at Oak Ridge. To make a long story short, being located in Florida, I dated Tony Lopex-Fresquet (son of Rufo L-F, finance minister in Fidel's cabinet) who had fled with his American mother along with his brother, Vincent, and i learned about the Ruston coalition against Castro. i became interested in canceling Castro out after more experiences, not the leats was having castro aim missiles at me and my parents in Florida, if you see what I mean.

I knew important people, and in indianapolis got conscripted into the CIA though was just a minor. i was trained in cancer research techniques, and I have tousands of detials from 1960 through January of 1964.

My life was destroyed when i was asked to go to New Orleans from gainesville, FL spring of 1963. I met lee, but in rebellion eloped with a man i thought I loved. they fixed that--sent him offshore almost entire summer, and out of the way, and continued to us eme. i was used, used, and so was Lee.

It is impossible to go into the kind of details that you would wish to hear. it takes hours to get it all to somebody. Plus, i have proof of my special training, and links to New orleans. as a cover, i was put on at Reily's--me, a trained research technologist, working with Monagahn as his finance and credit adssistant! but i warped up lee's records for them there, and many other things, worked with INCA people, and Ochsner was the common link there.

David Lifton gave me less than an hour and a half, plus another half hour asking about the book, etc.

i am not interested in maing any money or peddling a book. I got an agent hoping to get the book i wrote--which put everything down in detail before i talked to anybody, and then had a professor keep a truncated version of it in caseanything happened to me--that shows i have never deviated from my account from the first. however, if people ask me something, i will add information. For exakple, Debra Conway asked me intimate questions about Lee, since she knew information from things i never knew existed. Example: was lee circumcized? (no). The pointnis that whatever i might not have thought to put down, if somebody asked, i emailed them, usually with a witness (John, kelly, Sarah, cassie, etc.) present, so that there was proof i wasn;t 'looking it up.' i have NO books, Dave.

i don;t need any books.

I've got it all in my head.

I mixed some things up. i remembered Sam Termine as Sam Terminator and knew it wasn;t right, finally somebody mentioned termine and bingo, i recognized it. usually, though, I am asked something and respond at once in reply to somebody asking more details.

For example, litrtle things like when lee and i walked together, our wedding bands clicked, which embarrassed me, and him, so he moved the band to his other hand, or, more often, we walked with his left hand holding my right hand instead of his right hand holding my left hand. little things like that in my memory.

I had been trained to speak some Russian, all is verified, and i have photos proving i looked like marina. i often passed as her. lee and i hit it off: i was marina's exact height, figure, and same eyes, eybrows, even hairline. of course, we were not the same women. I am not nearly so moody.

There is no possible way that mr. Lifton could get a smidgen of the details. martin said he has a stack of email messages four feet high. Martin does not have ALL the messages. Howard has the most. Thousands of answers to questions, chronologies, yes, new names, new faces, where they fit in, and atop this, David, i have witnesses on tape, half a dozen mag=fia people here where i live who will testify who I was, for they all knew about me at least by rumor, and a witness also on film as well as tape. And that witness doesn't just say they knew me. this person talks for almost fifteen minutes about the things we all did together .

There is much more.

private investigators for almost three months now have looked into every aspect of my life, into every nook and cranny, and especially into the leads i gave them. The evidence is rolling in. Because there are people lwho will make fun, lie, and distort, no doubt I will never be believed by some percentage of the people. lookmwhat they've said about the ex-lax thing. they twisted it all around. we were trying to save JFK, you don;t have to believe me.

i wouldn;t believe me, Dave, if i hadn;t gone through it.

You wouldn;t believe the life i have led. I and husband joined Mormon churcvh. i wanted my sins washed away. Sins of having cheated on this man whose name protected me from death. they would have killed me if i had so much as lifted my head. By becoming a Mormon, i subsumed myself into a society that was totally isolated from my old world.

And there I stayed.

In 1986, i got a degree at last, after 25 long years--here i had been the smartest, highest IQ in state of Florida, and didn;t get my degree for 25 years! but i was terrified to do so.

Anyway, i had learned in 13 yrs. time to translate Egyptian, found out documents of the Mormon church "translated from ancient Egyptian" were hoax translations, confronted the chuch, and asked for excommunication.

my former husband divorced me a year later, because he believes I'm going to hell. it was an ethical matter, a matter of integrity. My former husband is a miollionaire lving in Houston who, in bitterness, fought hard to pry the children away. he did not get them, i am a tiger when it coms to them.

So only one of the children ended up, ultimately, Mormon. But i went into poverty. i did not dare risk background checks, and had no way to use my mormon friends as reference because had been excommunicated. I dared to tell news media my story and a subsoifdiary of BBC made a film in England about me, and I also had a film made in israel onthe mount of Olives, and appeared all over by satellite, live, besides. Received death threats from mormon fanatics (I'm dead meat if you are a Mormon, aren't I?--yet Joseph Smith faked the translation of the ook of Abraham, and i proved it!). mark Hoffman and the mormon bombings will give you an idea, if you look on internet, of what i risked.

I did it under name of J.J. Michael and other fake names becauseof the danger that they'd find my maiden name.

If i would roisk all to uncover the mormon hoax like that, and lose a 24 year marriage, do you think i would destroy the reputation I have as a woman of honor and integrity to pretend i had been lee's mistress? Do you have any idea how distressful it has been to bring this up, especially to my super-conservative family? Several of my children are so offended. one son refuses to speak to me.

So i could go on and on.

I have documents, proof of residence, some of Lee's handwriting, proof of reily's, but most important, proof of special training, and that i looked like marina, and indeed, i am the 'woman" that was in jackson with lee, on and on, there's much, much more.

I thought to take it to my grave because thought they would never open up the files. I knew nothing except that Lee had been blamed, and knowing all along what would happen if he didn;t get out of there in time, I knew he would be lied aout, etc. and could not stomach looking into any of it. i am not morbid like that. All i hadto do was mention his name and i could see the reactions of disgust or anger or puzzlement, so i needed nothing else to test the waters.

Anyway, if you would meet me (others have done so--i realize it is expensive, but if you spend two days, you get a good batch of information, and you also see all the evidence). i have asked people to do this. if they come, they believe. Why? You know i am not lying when you talk to me.

You see what i have. You learn details that do not vary, that's why Lifton;s stuff looks so bad right now. There's a quote there about ex-lax *(besides, i think it was feen-a-mint!) but to not sound absurd, the problem is that this is one of the most important quotes, burned into my brain, and it makes me cry when i think of it, yet Lifton made fun of me for sarting to cry, and he also MISQUOTED the quote, causing some people to think that lee wanted to kill JFK and inspiring some to think i was glad to see it and put out chairs to see it at the lab, and all of that, how gross.

Davoid Blackburst politely declined to get information forsthand from me: i aslked him to come look. People have done so: about thirty-five, altoegther, twenty-five taking enough time to do it right. Major persons in news media have also spent days with me, interrogating me. these expert interviewers know when people are lying. Further, they recognize truth, their whole journalistic reputation, etc. depends upon it.

please forgive my typos, i have a rebuilt back and some nerve damage in my left arms and both hands.

If you come, you will become like a brother to me, because I will pour out my heart, and you will see what i have been through, which is an awful lot, and you will sense, and learn, and then make up your mind about if i could tell you such massive untruths. i am not perfect and make mistakes, those, too, i bring up freely.

For example, I thought Lee told me about a Sawtooth Mountain that somebody asked me about, and i said, yes, that was the mountain. well, it was not.....I went into a box and looked at the postcard he had given me, and it was BEARtooth Mountain. So it did not match with this rumor, convcenient as that might have been for what I owned. It had to be just ' right.....This is an example of my correcting something I reported wrong. And i will do that again rather than report anything erroneously.

strangely, Debra Conway got to see about half the stuff and visited me perhaps half a day and a couple hours that night as we lay talking in the dark, talking about Lee. Anyway, she believes everything up to where i stopped talking to her and stopped showing her lots of evidence. She doesn't believe Lee would contact me. I reminded her that hurricane Flora had devastated Cuba, and it was a greatdisaster that Castro still remembered years after. But when i first brought up how hurricane Flora wrecked the penetration plan into Cuba, everybody said, HUH? What hurricane?

And so on....

There is much more. Again, i ask for confidentiality (mainly against fools, look what they do with it on internet!) . God bless you,Dave.

Judyth V. Baker

I hope you are above some of the ways of some critters on the net. it's 3 am, i am tired, and have 170 papers to grade. i teach English at UL, am not merely a student, though getting a degree in literature, a doctorate.....and in linguistics.....got disgusted at how you were attacked. I hope your m---pooey, i just fell asleeep at the keyboard...later, then, if you are game.... j

 

In a subsequent message to Gary Buell, Judyth repeated her accusation of forgery and pointed out that I did not post the complete, original headers to this e-mail. This is true; back in 2000 I had only the vaguest idea, if any, what complete e-mail headers were or how to access them, as my Internet service provider was America Online and AOL's e-mail reader did not display complete headers. Like all the e-mails I retained from that period, the text I have was cut and pasted from my AOL e-mail reader into a Word document and saved to my hard drive. Even if I had the complete headers, of course, Judyth would likely claim that I forged them, just as she claims I altered the headers in an e-mail from Mary Ferrell. (I was never acquainted with the late Mary Ferrell and never received any e-mails from her. Judyth may be thinking of a famous e-mail of December 12, 2001, that Mary Ferrell sent to Kennedy Assassination Home Page webmaster John McAdams and a number of other researchers, denouncing Judyth, which McAdams subsequently posted to the alt.assassination.jfk newsgroup with Ferrell's permission. Judyth claims this e-mail was forged; why she would claim I had anything to do with the matter I don't know.)

Judyth also told Gary Buell that I told her John McAdams pays for my website, a claim that has been picked up and repeated by at least one of Judyth's handful of believers. I never said any such thing; John McAdams has never had anything to do with my website and has never paid for it or financially supported it in any sense.

In her April 29, 2012, 3:25 PM, posting to the Facebook group, "JFK Death: Good and Bad Writings?", Judyth wrote (with all spelling and capitalization as in the original):

 

I WISH TO ADD THAT THE 'NO' SUPPOSEDLY WRITTEN BY MYSELF WAS ADDED TO AN EMAIL WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE BY THE PERSON, DAVE REITZES, WHO ONCE PRETENDED TO BE A CT BUT DID A 'GARY MACK' ON THE RESEARCH COMMUNITY. HE WROTE TO ME --I STILL HAVE THE EMAIL--THAT MCADAMS WAS PAYING FOR HIS WEBSITES. NICE GOING, MCA... REITZES INSISTED ON SEEINGH MY BOOK MANUSCRIPT OR SAID HE WOULD SEND ALL MY PERSONAL EMAILS TO MCADAMS. WHICH HE DID WHEN I REFUSED. YES, HE SENT MY PERSONAL EMAILS TO JOHN MCADAMS. SOME WERE ALTERED, AS WELL. INCLUDING THE EMAIL BARB J. MENTIONS ABOVE, WITH A SINGLE WORD ADDED THAT I NEVER WROTE. IN FACT, IF YOU READ THE EMAIL, YOU CAN TELL THE COMMENT 'NO' WAS ADDED, AS I WAS ACTUALLY COMPLAINING ABOUT THE RUMOR...THIS WAS IN 2000, WELL AFTER I OBJECTED TO THE RUMOR TO MANY OTHERS, AND THEY HAVE THE RECORD. REITZES OR MCADAMS OR ONE OF THEIR FRIENDS ADDED THE 'NO.' I WOULD NEVER HAVE STATED SUCH A THING WHEN I HAD ALREADY STRENUOUSLY OBJECTED THAT PEOPLE WERE PASSING AROUND THAT RUMOR IN 2000. HOW EASY IT IS TO ADD A SINGLE WORD AND CHANGE EVERYTHING. NOTE THAT REITZES ALSO PUBLISHED THE TRANSCRIPT OF LEE'S RADIO 'DEBATE' AND DID NOT ALERT READERS THAT THE WARREN COMMISSION CHANGED PART OF THE TEXT. HE LET THE ALTERED WORDS REMAIN, WITHOUT COMMENT OR FOOTNOTE: TRANSCRIPT OF FPCC DEBATE OVER STATION WDSU ... Now Mr. Oswald and Bringuier are with us tonight to give us opposing views on the Fair Play .... "I was not under the protection of the -- that is to say I was not under protection of the ..." WHAT LEE ACTUALLY SAID WAS "I WAS UNDER THE PROTECTION OF THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT....THAT IS TO SAY, I WAS NOT UNDER THE PROTECTION OF THE..." but does Reitzes ever tell the reader?

 

Judyth's statement requires a number of corrections: I did not and would not alter any statements or e-mails from her or anyone else; I never "pretended" to be a conspiracy theorist; I never told Judyth that John McAdams pays for my website (he doesn't); I never demanded to see her book manuscript or issued any sort of threat regarding it; and, to the best of my recollection, I have never published the Oswald transcript she complains about.

Having seen Judyth accuse several others of forging materials pertaining to her, it was partially with an eye to preempting similar claims about me that I posted a number of e-mails from Judyth to alt.assassination.jfk in 2008, along with other relevant materials from my Judyth archive. Interested parties can access my posts with these links (the e-mails from Judyth begin in Part 10):

 

Judyth: From the Beginning, Part 1
Judyth: From the Beginning, Part 2
Judyth: From the Beginning, Part 3
Judyth: From the Beginning, Part 4
Judyth: From the Beginning, Part 5
Judyth: From the Beginning, Part 6
Judyth: From the Beginning, Part 7
Judyth: From the Beginning, Part 8
Judyth: From the Beginning, Part 9
Judyth: From the Beginning, Part 10
Judyth: From the Beginning, Part 11
Judyth: From the Beginning, Part 12
Judyth: From the Beginning, Part 13
Judyth: From the Beginning, Part 14
Judyth: From the Beginning, Part 15
Judyth: From the Beginning, Part 16
Judyth: From the Beginning, Part 17
Judyth: From the Beginning, Part 18
Judyth: From the Beginning, Part 19
Judyth: From the Beginning, Part 20

 

It is a matter of some regret to me that I felt it necessary to go back on my word and go public with Judyth's e-mails, which I had previously agreed to keep confidential. I adhered to my promise for three years; then, in 2003, I witnessed Judyth exhibiting what law enforcement officials might call a consciousness of guilt with regard to the truthfulness of her statements. For example, when David Lifton went public with a number of details from a telephone interview he had conducted with Judyth in 2000, such as her claim that she and Oswald had discussed the possibility of meeting in Cancun following JFK's assassination (although, as Lifton pointed out in his 2003 newsgroup posts, the resort city of Cancun did not yet exist in 1963), Judyth immediately and vehemently denounced Lifton as a liar. But when Lifton revealed that he had made a tape recording of the conversation without her knowledge and offered to release the tape with her permission, Judyth fell silent.

I called upon her to respond to Lifton's offer. She remained silent.

It was at this point that I issued Judyth the following ultimatum, posted to alt.assassination.jfk on September 16, 2003:

 

Judyth,

You said you would fight to the death to redeem your "beloved" Lee Oswald.

You said David Lifton was a liar and a bad, bad man.

Now you sit in silence when he challenges you to allow the release of a tape-recorded interview that he claims would hurt your credibility, but, if your story were true, could not possibly do you any harm. If you do not respond to Mr. Lifton's challenge, right here at this newsgroup, within 48 hours, I will assume that you are a liar and a fraud; and I will assume that when you e-mailed me and offered to share information, you were thereby seeking to involve me in this deception. I will then consider myself released from the bond of confidentiality with regards to our correspondence, as well as my correspondence with your representatives.

I will not be party to a fraud. You have 48 hours to respond to Mr. Lifton.

Dave

 

Judyth's response completely evaded the issue of the tape recording and attacked me instead. This is what she said, with all spelling as in the original post:

 

dreitzes@aol.com (Dave Reitzes) wrote . . .

> Judyth,

> You said you would fight to the death to redeem your "beloved" Lee Oswald.

 

====Dave, indeed what you wrote (below) is true. I have already put everything on the line. What about you? What stake do YOU have in this? ============

>DAVE: You said David Lifton was a liar and a bad, bad man.

 

Judyth [responds]: You are repeating a private message never intended for the public. I do not, unlike you, post private comments. That is libel. I am only responding because you issued an ultimatum. You wwant me to do what you want -- or else. You say you will break your promise to keep confidential emails confidential, unless I do what you order me to do.

YOUR ULTIMATUM provides evidence that you may be a dishonest man.

I told you that I would not respond to Mr. Lifton at any time on this newsgroup after he published untruths about me.

I am only responding to you now because, at one time, I thought we could be friends. You were dropped from posts because I had to limit the number of recipients and you never wrote back.

Lately you have demanded that I chastise Mr. Shackelford for remarks he made to you, as if I had any influence over mr. Shackelford. I have no more influence over him than I have over you. However, he impresses me with his honesty. Also, he has never tried to force me to do what he wants, unlike you.

Why do you think that your threats will force me to respond to Mr. Lifton?

What comes next, David? Will your next ultimatum be that I must do whatever Mr. McAdams wants, or -- again --- you will disclose the private emails that you were sent? People will have to decide for themselves whether those emails, if published, have been altered. I have kept copies, Dave. of EVERYTHING.

I thought you were a man of honor.

I was aware that you were friends with McAdams, but you seemed to have integrity. That's why I wrote to you. I did not write ONLY to those who believe in a conspiracy, but to anyone who seemed to be an honest person, such as Tracy Parnell. Of course I can make mistakes about who is honest and who is not.

I simply wanted everyone to know I was attempting to speak out, and would they like any information, whatever side they were on. Mr. Lifton illegally taped a phone conversation, without my knowledge.

Mr. Lifton, displaying such dishonest behavior, does not deserve a response.

Your issuing an ultimatum is a sad commentary on your own ethical standards: you will post, despite your promise of confidentiality, if I do not do what you say. Right?

I leave it to others to decide if you are a man of integrity and a man who keeps his word.

I thank all of those persons who understand that I will offer a book or books on the matter of my relationship with Lee Harvey Oswald, and that this takes time, especially since I have been ill, after my hicle getting rammed by a white van that had apparently been following me for some time. The result was a concussion, with neck, back, and eye problems resulting. That has slowed down progress on the book.

But it didn't stop it.

Yes, I do have information and evidence to help vindicate Lee Oswald, and I have already paid a big price for speaking out, which is why I did wait for so long.

I do not post here because every time I did so, my answers were twisted and misrepresented with headers saying 'scam'and other such epithets. I do ask for everyone's prayers, and please do pray for Mr. Mcadams, too, who I believe is a Catholic who one day must meet his Maker, as will I also have to do.

Judyth Baker=================

 

Although I am not proud of going back on my word, Judyth's evasion of the issue of the tape recording, which presumably contained evidence that would either support or impeach her credibility, convinced me to go public with what I knew about Judyth Vary Baker.

3. Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Rich DellaRosa, posted by DellaRosa to JFKresearch.com, April 10, 2009 (with all spelling and capitalization as in the original posting): "[Researcher Robert] Chapman called me shortly after Debra Conway and i had met, and said, 'Debra tells me you said Oswald was not circumcized.' Debra Conway had told me she had received a photo of Lee entirely nide, and that she and Chapman had decided to show it at the Lancer conference, with that area covered. We did not discuss circumcision-- I did make a cmment that Lee was 'well endowed.' . . . It's important to know that when Chapman called me and said Debra had told him that I said Lee was not circumcized, AND THAT THE PHOTO SHE HAD SHOWN AT LANCER CONFIRMED THIS, that many things ran through my mind. Someone had sent her a bogus or altered photo, then, because Lee WAS circumcized! Fortnately, her reputation was still OK because she had told me that area had been covered with a black square when shown publically. Poor Debra! She had been given a bogus photo! And accepted it as genuine, even though the autopsy report said clearly that Lee was circumcized! Not a very good researcher, I thought to myself, but was not about to betray her to Chapman. Her heart would be broken. So I only told Chapman ' what i had commented to Debra--that lee certainly was 'well-endowed.' Unfortunately, I soon learned that Debra and Chapman and [David] Lifton tgether were telling people I was a fraud and had no evidence." Judyth elaborated upon this topic in an e-mail to researcher Gary Buell, and accused me of fabricating her e-mail of October 6, 2000 (see endnote #2).

4. Judyth Vary Baker, biographical blurb posted at Manatee High School alumni website. "Lee Oswald and I worked together for the CIA in an anti-Castro project which included delivery of live biological weapons into Cuba, one of them aimed to kill Castro." Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes, October 6, 2000: "I knew important people, and in indianapolis [sic] got conscripted into the CIA though [I] was just a minor." Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes, October 7, 2000: ". . . [Dr. Canute] Michaelson gave my name to the CIA as one of the bright brains in the country, and from that time on, I had access to equipment, funds, you name it, as well as special training involving doctors who got trained at Oak Ridge. . . . In short--and i [sic] can fill in many details--I had gone through projects starting in indianapolis [sic] with my being, apparently, conscripted into service of the CIA. I sa[y] apparently because i [sic] was a minor, and my father may have signed papers for me. I signed a lot of them, but I did not even bother to read them." Related sources: Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes, October 11, 2000: "I claimed connections with Oak Ridge and the CIA. They found documents from Oak Ridge--and presence of a CIA agent at the training sessions --which only recently have been released."

Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes and others, November 16, 2000: "Not that I hadn;t [sic] bona fide ties with CIA. I did . . ." See also Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy. Judyth has stated numerous times that she has evidence to support all she says. For example: Judyth Vary Baker, biographical blurb posted at Manatee High School alumni website: "I really don't expect you to believe any of this without documentation and proof. Don't be concerned: I've got the proof. . . . I have my defenders and I've been able to prove everything I'm saying."

Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, May 7, 2004: ". . . WHEN ONE HAS BEEN TRAINED AS A SCIENTIST, AND THEY HAVE WRITTEN AND REVIEWED AND READ MANY PAPERS, GENERALLY THEY ARE AWARE THAT IF THEY MAKE A STATEMENT, THERE HAD BETTER BE BACK-UP. SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT TRAINED IN THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD MAY NOT REALIZE THIS RESPONSIBILITY. I TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE OR BACK-UP FOR MY STATEMENTS SERIOUSLY. MU [sic] HAVING BEEN TRAINED IN THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD MEANS THAT I AM PARTICULARLY SENSITIVE TO THE ISSUE OF PROOF AND DOCUMENTATION." Judyth Vary Baker, JFKresearch.com post, November 2, 2002: ". . . I can prove every word i [sic] am writing here--- i [sic] can assure you that what we were doing was trying to create a biological weapon to get castro [sic] inn [sic] what would seem to be a natural death."

5. Judyth Vary Baker, JFKresearch.com post, November 14, 2002 (5:59 AM): "I am VERY upset that jack [sic] White has been posting a message to my high school classmates saying my story is 'bizarre' and asking their opinion, including the erroneous statement that I claimed to be a CIA agent--I NEVER EVER CLAIMED SUCH A THING." Judyth Vary Baker, JFKresearch.com post, November 12, 2002: ". . . YOU SENT AN EMAIL MESSAGE . . . STATING THAT I SAID I WAS A CIA AGENT. THAT IS SOMETHING I HAVE N- E- V- E- R SAID!!!!"

Judyth Vary Baker, JFKresearch.com post, November 14, 2002 (6:43 AM): "I was introduced to people I suspected were working for the CIA. I was never, myself, 'recruited' to my knowledge. I did sign loyalty oaths---three of them." Judyth Vary Baker, JFKresearch.com post, November 14, 2002 (7:56 AM): "When somebody first suggested i [sic] was CIA connected, I was shocked, it had not been that way in my experience. lee [sic] never said so in so many words."

Judyth Vary Baker, JFKresearch.com post, November 15, 2002: "Was it a CIA project? I am not certain even of that, i [sic] assume it because CIA people I now know were involved." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, July 9, 2003: "There has never been a claim that she was hired 'by the CIA.' You repeat this claim twice, totally without foundation. You also falsely suggest that Judyth claims the cancer project was a direct CIA project." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, October 28, 2001: "There is no claim that Judyth was a CIA employee."

Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, December 17, 2000: "You keep assuming CIA employment is claimed. On what basis?" In a JFKresearch.com post of November 2, 2002, Judyth describes herself as "an untraceable asset." Judyth Vary Baker, JFKresearch.com post, November 20, 2002: "Please, I have been told I was a CIA asset, that my time and labor was used by the CIA. To me, that is working for the CIA, but not as a member of the CIA, and some work I did before New oleans [sic] was also under the table. I will be happy to modify the terminology if it is manifestly misleading people, never my intention."

Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "I was used by Dr. Alton Ochsner in his get-Castro project. Was I, thereby, working for the CIA? As an asset, I suppose, but unwittingly. I was aware of CIA interest in all the anti-Castro activities going on in New Orleans. The city was a hotbed of CIA activity, too, and to contend that Ochsner had no connections whatsoever with the CIA at this time, when he was making almost weekly trips to Washington, D.C., was unthinkable to me. How much was personal effort and how much sponsored by the CIA, I do not know, but the relationships between Ochsner and anti-Castro government efforts was real."

In response to a preliminary draft of this article, Judyth writes: "Mr. Reitzes has created a very large, and therefore impressive-looking, but also very hollow, collection of 'inconsistencies' and 'objections' which he has tediously gathered from hundreds of pages of private, confidential emails and other stolen or purloined materials. Many were sent to Mr. Reitzes after he promised never, ever to make them public. So much for Mr. Reitzes as an honorable man. He has created 51 footnotes that frequently repeat themselves, but their common theme is that I in some way have been inconsistent. I have replied to this compendium of word tonnage, for the record, explaining that every inconsistency except ONE of these 51 exists only in Mr. Reitzes' imagination.

"He seems obsessed with destroying my character, my witness, and my good name, though he never met me, never so much as spoke to me once on the phone, and at no time ever indicated that he was not an honest and trustworthy person whose word was gold.. We all now know the truth. The reason I wished to keep these emails confidential was to protect evidence and witnesses still being found, and because this material was to be presented in my book, yet to be published.

"A great deal of speculation by me has been labeled as if it were my declared testimony. This is dishonest of Mr. Reitzes. I assume that, having lied to me that he would keep my information confidential, I should not be surprised that he might not be trusted to report it in correct context, either. . . . Yes, the work was FOR the CIA, through the auspices of Dr. Alton Ochsner. Was I myself 'CIA'? No. William Gaudet, I notice, wrote pamphlets used by the CIA. [John] McAdams contends Gaudet was not CIA. Clay Shaw gave information to the CIA after business trips. McAdams and Reitzes contend Clay Shaw was not CIA. Dave Ferrie worked with Sergio Arcacha Smith. Once again, Reitzes swears [sic] Dave Ferrie wasn't CIA. . . . A conscription is a draft (dictionary definition): a. The process or method of selecting one or more individuals from a group, as for a service or dutyI [sic] was selected from a group of superior science students by persons associated with the CIA and the military, at Indianapolis, including contacts with persons at Oak Ridge and Walter Reed Institute, which I can prove with documents. I was never a member of the CIA, but was used 'for a service or duty' as is made clear by the definition. I was na've [sic], though, and didn't understand what was going on. . . . [Dr. Canute] Michaelson was the first, but not the last, person associated with the CIA who was interested in my talents as a young scientist. Along with Col. Philip V. Doyle, who was the head of the PSSC Physics program throughout the State of Florida, he made sure I had early contacts with Oak Ridge, which led to mentoring by several doctors who had been trained by Oak Ridge. Michaelson encouraged an entire new science building to be built, with equipment, etc. not just for me but also for several other bright students he'd met at Manatee High School. All kinds of doors opened wide after that for any equipment or help/guidance I needed. . . . Today, the CIA openly contacts student winners of the international science fairs. For example, in 2004: 'After earning honors at the ExxonMobil [sic] Texas Science and Engineering Fair in April, seven Texas middle school students have advanced to the finals in the Discovery Channel Young Scientist Challenge (DCYSC). ... Seven ExxonMobil [sic] Texas Science and Engineering Fair Winners Named Finalists in the 4th Annual Discovery Channel ... They will work with the CIA, study forensics with the Washington, D ...[ellipses as in original]' I had similar opportunities and met CIA representatives in 1960 at Indianapolis, at the International Science and Engineering Fair held there that year. It just so happened that Indianapolis was a hotbed of rightwing activity. It's where the John Birch Society had just been founded, for example. GOOD researchers will look into this more deeply and see ' what I mean with these email statements, which McAdams and Reitzes have managed to try to turn into something sinister. . . . Having TIES and connections with the CIA and BEING CIA are two different matters. . . . The 'typos' are because I was writing PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL EMAILS to Mr. Reitzes. They were never meant for public viewing. I indeed can back up my statements, and have done so in private and on the internet. For example, I have a letter from Walter Reed Institute offering me additional supplies and chemicals and indicating that I was sent chemicals worth, at the time, $60 (over $450 in today's funds)? [ellipsis as in original] however, the prices of these chemicals have since risen much faster than inflation and would be worth in the thousands today. These chemicals, moreover, were sophisticated and unavailable to the outside world. Even today, try to get your hands on 2, alpha-methyl-dihydrotestosterone propionate!

"Note this paper published in 1964:1: Cancer. 1964 Aug;17:1073-8. (begin QUOTE) Related Articles.... [ellipsis as in original] HORMONAL THERAPY IN ADVANCED BREAST CANCER. 3. EFFECT OF 6-BETA-DIBROMOMETHYLENE TESTOSTERONE PROPIONATE COMPARED WITH THAT OF 2-ALPHA-METHYL DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE PROPIONATE ON CLINICAL COURSE AND METABOLISM OF SELECTED SERUM ELECTROLYTES.VOLK H, FOLEY CJ, SANFILIPPO LJ, ESCHER GC.PMID: 14202595 T=(END QUOTE)

"[T]he title of one of my cancer research projects included 2MDHTP, which is the acronym for the chemical I wrote out above. I was seventeen years old and working with these exotic chemicals in my high school laboratory. Ask yourself: how did I manage to get my hands on such chemicals? . . . Jack White said I claimed to be a CIA agent! An agent! GEESH! . . . I repeat: I was never recruited to be a CIA AGENT. That I was conscripted into service to be used by the CIA, I eventually understood, but not when it happened. It was only with hindsight that I realized it. I signed a loyalty oath in Indianapolis, and two others: one at Roswell Park, (required of all Hospital Medical Seminar participants at that time) and one at the University of Florida (required of all students at that time). . . . Lee never said I was CIA connected. He said he was. He said Ochsner was. Only when I finally understood what these people were doing with me, which was long after the fact, did I realize what their connections meant, and that, at Indianapolis, for example, they weren't just nice military officers and nice scientists working for the government who were interested in my career and offering to guide me (which indeed they did).

"They were also, in some cases, connected with the CIA, and wanted to make sure I was guided in the right direction. They did ask me to sign a loyalty oath in Indianapolis. I even understood that in some way it had to be connected with the CIA, but I was star-struck by the personalities I met and didn't see beyond to the agencies and organizations they represented. Only recently did I come to understand what kind of handling I received. This came as a shock to me because of my naivet' [sic]. At the ages of sixteen/seventeen, I might have been an outstanding science student -- and I was -- but I was easily led to do as I was told."

"And I did what I was told, by 'patriots'concerned [sic] about Russia, Sputnik, and the Soviet threat, which included castro aiming nuclear-armed warheads at my home state. I ended up being guided to learn how to create the most deadly cancers. I considered it my patriotic duty to comply. And I was good at what I did. At people skills -- not so good. I was a kid. . . . At no time did Ochsner say the get-Castro plot was CIA directed. But Lee Oswald said it was, and Dave Ferrie and Dr. Sherman were deeply worried by Dr. Ochsner's motives and connections, and believed the CIA was behind it. I was just a cog in this machine. There were others who would have taken my place if I hadn't been there. In fact, originally, I came two weeks early and was put in a position originally intended for someone else. We might even conjecture that Michael R. [Michael James Riconosciuto] -- another young cancer research prodigy--was supposed to have been placed in that position.

"He has indicated that he saw some of the cancer research reports I wrote which were in Guy Banister's office before they were sent out of state. As for myself being an untraceable asset, that's true. It was what made me attractive to Ochsner in the project, once I was made aware of the clandestine side of the project." (Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004.)

(Author's note: Michael Riconosciuto is a convicted drug dealer who, among many other things, claims to have been a CIA agent, to have met personally with Osama Bin Laden, and to have attended the military autopsy of a life form from outer space.)

Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 5, 2004: "Dave, once again you compare your interpretations in order to find a contradiction that isn't really there. In 1 and 2, she indicates she was 'apparently' conscripted into the service of the CIA, and also that she wasn't a CIA agent or employee--no contradiction at all there." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 5, 2004: "Although I'm sure you can come up with an out-of-context quote from somewhere, Judyth's account has never identified her as a CIA employee, but as someone involved with a CIA-sponsored project." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 14, 2004: ". . . [Y]ou seem to conveniently forget that I've been in close contact with [Judyth] since May of 1999, and I KNOW what she did and didn't say over this period of years--I don't need to run to her to ask these things?"

6. Martin Shackelford, Facebook post, December 27, 2016: "The earliest extant account [of Judyth's story] appears in her May 1999 letter to her children: [Quote on] 1) I came to New Orleans because I loved Robert A. Baker. [Quote off] "

7. Judyth Vary Baker, Lee Harvey Oswald: The True Story of the Accused Assassin of President John F. Kennedy by His Lover (Victoria, British Columbia: Trafford Publishing, 2006), p. 38. Judyth Vary Baker, Me and Lee: How I Came to Know, Love and Lose Lee Harvey Oswald (Walterville, Oregon: Trine Day, 2010), pp. 95-97. Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes and others, November 16, 2000: "Anyway, i [sic] convinced Robert it was HIS idea to go to New Orleans (he forgot that i [sic] told him I had to leave town and was planning to go to N.O.-- he did not want me to drop out of his life like that). So he began applying for jobs in N.O."

8. Judyth Vary Baker, quoted in an alt.conspiracy.jfk post of Howard Platzman, November 15, 2003: "THROUGH A SERIES OF EVENTS INVOLVING KNOWING DR. SHERMAN, I EVENTUALLY MET LEE HARVEY OSWALD . . ."

9. Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy: "When Lee was ordered to move to New Orleans in April 1963, he met Judyth by accident (or maybe not) at the new post office." Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "[In reference to the previous quotation] That's exactly right."

10. Judyth Vary Baker, biographical blurb posted at Manatee High School alumni website: "I spoke crude conversational Russian by 1963, when I was introduced in New Orleans to Lee Harvey Oswald."

11. Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy: "When Lee was ordered to move to New Orleans in April 1963, he met Judyth by accident (or maybe not) at the new post office." Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "[In reference to the previous quotation] That's exactly right."

12. Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy: "When Lee was ordered to move to New Orleans in April 1963, he met Judyth by accident (or maybe not) at the new post office." In an e-mail of November 16, 2000, to Dave Reitzes and others, Judyth explains, "I npow [sic] suspect Lee was sent there to check on me b y [sic] ochsner [sic], but I never dreamed of it at the time!" In a statement posted by Wim Dankbaar to JFKresearch.com, November 7, 2002, Judyth states: "I now believe Lee was sent to check me out because I'd arrived two weeks early on invitation from Dr. Ochsner (though i [sic] did check into the 'Y' as he had asked me to)--school got out quicker than in New orleans [sic] because we were on the trimester schedule (I didn't want to face parents and friends because I'd had a recent miscarriage, which is why Robert asked me to marry him, so we could get birth control pills). I now believe that Ochsner sent Lee to check me out, see if I was okay, etc. because he would be able to recognize me (I looked strikingly like [h]is own wife). He never told me this, nor did Ochsner bring it up, but it is the only way i [sic] can account for the fact that Lee and I met April 26, a day after he had arrived in New Orleans, at this brand new post office."

Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, September 27, 2004: "I came two weeks earlier than I was supposed to, to New Orleans, having been offered another summer of research, this time under Dr. Mary Sherman in Ochsner's Foundation Clinic. Both Ochsner and Sherman were out of town, but I was mistaken for the person who was going to be sent to help Dave Ferrie with the clandestine side of that project. Lee Osweald [sic] either ran into me accidentally, or, now that I have hindsight, Dave Ferrie was asked to check on me, by Ochsner, when I arrived early (it was a dangerous city and I was alone). Ferrie concluded I was the promised helper and told me elements of the project before Ochsner or Sherman could stop him." Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes, October 11, 2000: "He [Oswald] inadvertently spilled some things out when was told to make contact with me, because he was not told much about me, just to check on if i [sic] was ok. I had come to N.O. two weeks before i [sic] was scheduled to do so (I was rebellious, ochsner [sic] hated that). I had wanted to see if I could do anything on my own, they were running my life A-Z and i [sic] was getting sick of it. Anyway, lee [sic] was sent, I think (he never admitted it) to check up on me when it was discovered i [sic] used the trailways [sic] ticket two weeks early." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 5, 2004: ". . . [S]he met Oswald by accident, as far as she knows, but has suspected it may have been pre-arranged. Again, no real contradicton [sic]."

Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "I originally believed our meeting was accidental, but it might not have been, since Ochsner may have been concerned about my having arrived two weeks early, and the fact that I was a lone female in a rough town. Dr. Sherman was out of town, so I could not be helped by her. Since I resembled Marina, Lee might have been sent to meet me to help babysit me, for all I know. Or maybe not. Apparently Mr. Reitzes does not allow me to make any speculations. Why?" Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "By the time I wrote this ['I spoke crude conversational Russian by 1963, when I was introduced in New Orleans to Lee Harvey Oswald.'], I had decided that Lee was probably deliberately sent to meet me, at the post office, though he never at any time indicated this to me. . . . I have no idea what bothers Mr. Reitzes about any of the statements above."

13. Martin Shackelford, Facebook post, December 27, 2016: "The earliest extant account [of Judyth's story] appears in her May 1999 letter to her children: [Quote on] ...I soon learned that our activities [i]n Ferrie's lab were being run by the CIA..." [Quote off]

14. Judyth Vary Baker, Lee Harvey Oswald: The True Story of the Accused Assassin of President John F. Kennedy by His Lover (Victoria, British Columbia: Trafford Publishing, 2006), p. 96.

15. Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to unknown recipients, November 13, 2000, forwarded to John McAdams and posted by McAdams at alt.assassination.jfk, December 31, 2000: "I have a great deal of proof that Lee Oswald warked [sic] for the CIA and was involved, with me, in a get-Castro project." Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail CC'ed to Dave Reitzes, November 16, 2000: "In the end, history will have to accept that Lee Oswald was working for the CIA while in New Orleans, whatever else history wants to say about him. I provide sufficient evidence and inside knowledge to prove it." Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy: "Lee Oswald, a CIA operative, was groomed to look like a disaffected American for eventual use in Cuba. This was the primary reason for his fake defection to Russia. . . . Upon his return from Russia, the CIA arranged for Lee to take a job at a Dallas graphic arts firm, Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall, that was involved in highly classified work for the government, including the creation of detailed maps of Cuba. His CIA assignment involved identifying the location of safe houses." "Lee was not yet part of the CIA-Mafia plot in a concrete way, but would be linked to it in the spring of 1963. . . . Lee was ordered to move to New Orleans in April 1963 . . . At Reily's, Lee interviewed Cuban women, refugees, that were cycled thru the factory. Winning their trust, he would extract from them the names of safe contacts they had left behind in Cuba." "Both Reily and Monaghan were aware of Lee's mission . . . Lee and Ferrie taught combat techniques to Cuban exiles at the CIA-established training camp at Lake Pontchartrain . . ."

"Before the Silence Came: Lee's Last Telephone Calls," draft chapter from Judyth's manuscript, posted by Robert Vernon at alt.assassination.jfk, August 30, 2004: ". . . Lee never used his CIA [or] FBI money for private matters . . ." Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "Lee never said I was CIA connected. He said he was. He said Ochsner was. Only when I finally understood what these people were doing with me, which was long after the fact, did I realize what their connections meant, and that, at Indianapolis, for example, they weren't just nice military officers and nice scientists working for the government who were interested in my career and offering to guide me (which indeed they did)." "They were also, in some cases, connected with the CIA, and wanted to make sure I was guided in the right direction. . . . At no time did Ochsner say the get-Castro plot was CIA directed. But Lee Oswald said it was, and Dave Ferrie and Dr. Sherman were deeply worried by Dr. Ochsner's motives and connections, and believed the CIA was behind it. . . . The typos in the emails are, of course, because Mr. Reitzes is printing our private, confidential emails he promised to keep private and confidential. I would have spell checked them otherwise. Was Lee working for the CIA in New Orleans? He said he was." Judyth Vary Baker, Lee Harvey Oswald: The True Story of the Accused Assassin of President John F. Kennedy by His Lover (Victoria, British Columbia: Trafford Publishing, 2006), p. 365:

 

"All right," I asked him, "what agency do you really work for, and who is your most important handler?"

"All right, you little spy," he said, smiling, "You've won. Here's the answer: I'm loaned to the CIA," he said, "and must sometimes help the FBI, but for who my main handler is, not even God knows the answer to that. Certainly I don't."

Lee said he called him "Mr. B," because the first name given was Benson. Then another time, he slipped and said it was Bishop.

 

16. Judyth Vary Baker, defunct website at Switchboard.com: "When I knew Lee, he was an FBI informant. He also worked closely with persons associated or working for the CIA, though I don't know from which agency Lee himself had been 'borrowed,' for he told me he had been borrowed (---by the CIA?) and was not allowed to tell me what agency he came from." Judyth Vary Baker, JFKresearch.com post, November 14, 2002 (7:56 AM): "When somebody first suggested i [sic] was CIA connected, I was shocked, it had not been that way in my experience. lee [sic] never said so in so many words." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 5, 2004: ". . . Oswald was doing things for the CIA, but she isn't sure if he was actually a CIA employee. Again, no real contradiction."

17. Judyth Vary Baker, biographical blurb posted at Manatee High School alumni website. "Lee Oswald and I worked together for the CIA in an anti-Castro project which included delivery of live biological weapons into Cuba, one of them aimed to kill Castro." Judyth Vary Baker, Lee Harvey Oswald: The True Story of the Accused Assassin of President John F. Kennedy by His Lover (Victoria, British Columbia: Trafford Publishing, 2006), p. 57: "To the very end, Lee was not allowed to tell me what agency was responsible for his training -- he would only say that he was 'on loan' to the CIA from another agency." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "Lee told me he had been borrowed by the CIA from another agency, which he refused to name. He had volunteered to come to New Orleans to work on several undercover projects, but they were not assassination-of-Castro projects. His concerns were anti-Castro projects, especially identifying pro-Castroites and to establish firm pro-Castro credentials for himself. He was also supposed to help make a training film, being very interested in photography and having some experience in that field. He became involved in my anti-Castro associated activities, which focused on a get-Castro assassination plot, in order to spend more time with me. There is no doubt in my mind that Dr. Ochsner, the force behind the get-Castro project in New Orleans, had CIA connections."

From Judyth Vary Baker, Lee Harvey Oswald: The True Story of the Accused Assassin of President John F. Kennedy by His Lover (Victoria, British Columbia: Trafford Publishing, 2006), p. 365:

 

"All right," I asked him, "what agency do you really work for, and who is your most important handler?"

"All right, you little spy," he said, smiling, "You've won. Here's the answer: I'm loaned to the CIA," he said, "and must sometimes help the FBI, but for who my main handler is, not even God knows the answer to that. Certainly I don't."

Lee said he called him "Mr. B," because the first name given was Benson. Then another time, he slipped and said it was Bishop.

 

18. Judyth Vary Baker, defunct website at Switchboard.com: "When I knew Lee, he was an FBI informant. He also worked closely with persons associated or working for the CIA, though I don't know from which agency Lee himself had been 'borrowed,' for he told me he had been borrowed (---by the CIA?) and was not allowed to tell me what agency he came from."

19. Judyth Vary Baker, Facebook post, January 6, 2014: "Lee was also working for the CIA, on loan from ONI."

20. Judyth Vary Baker, Facebook post, June 23, 2012: "It is assumed he [Oswald] was ONI, of course, being a Marine. Do not believe the lie that he spent time in the brig (only one witness to that)... he told me the brig was a set-up so he could receive more training, and i [sic] did believe him. The court martial was set up as well, to dirty his reputation so he could survive in the USSR as an infiltrator. For this reason he actually scored WORSE, rather than BETTER, on his next two rifle range tests. He did not dare shoot as if he were a top-ranked marksman. His contracting gonorrhea 'in the line pof [sic] duty' they have tried to pawn off as normal comment in a Marine's record who was treated for sexually transmitted diseases, when this was not true, according to my stepfather, who was with Army Intelligence (U2 photo analysis, and supports me 100%, BTW, after i told him what lee told me about his U2 experiences and what he did concerning Gary Powers)."

21. Oswald was "Trained by the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) and loaned to the CIA for undercover operations...": Judyth Vary Baker, David Ferrie: Mafia Pilot, Participant in Anti-Castro Bioweapon Plot, Friend of Lee Harvey Oswald and Key to the JFK Assassination (Walterville, Oregon: Trine Day, 2014), p. 2.

22. A wisely circulated, forged document, represented as a CIA memorandum to Secret Service chief James J. Rowley, states, "Oswald subject was trained by this agency, under cover of the Office of Naval Intelligence, for Soviet assignments." Judyth claims that the document is authentic, and its contents are "true." (Quoted in a Facebook post by Diane Olson Dowd, August 17, 2016: "This memo has been issued to read CONFIDENTIAL and therefore has been rendered worthless. The information contained in this document should have been classified TOP SECRET or EYES ONLY. By cleverly issuing it as 'CONFIDENTIAL' the memo's contents, which are true, were placed in the category of UNTRUE. This clever method is used to make sure the truth gets confused with falsehoods. The memo is true: the classification renders the contents false, even though they are not. By doing so, CIA and FBI can read the contents for true information but deny that the memo is real.")

23. Judyth Vary Baker, YouTube video, May 1, 2012.

24. Judyth Vary Baker, Facebook post, September 22, 2012: "In New Orlreans [sic] (and I assume Dallas as well) Le [sic] was getting cash form [sic] the FBI, cash from the CIA (apaprently) [sic] . . ."

25. Judyth Vary Baker, Facebook post, June 23, 2012: Oswald "said he was 'borrowed' from his own agency to work for the CIA, and he was also working for the FBI. he [sic] was actually getting $200 a month from each entity."

26. Judyth Vary Baker, "Straight Talk from Judyth Baker": "[A. J. Weberman] ignores information Lee gave to me, such as his working for Customs, which i gave to Joan Mellen -- which she reported as information she acquired by herself." See also Judyth Vary Baker, Me and Lee: How I Came to Know, Love and Lose Lee Harvey Oswald (Walterville, Oregon: Trine Day, 2010), pp. 352-53.

27. Judyth Vary Baker, Me & Lee: How I Came to Know, Love and Lose Lee Harvey Oswald (Waterville, Oregon: Trine Day LLC, 2010), p. 515. See also Judyth Vary Baker, Lee Harvey Oswald: The True Story of the Accused Assassin of President John F. Kennedy by His Lover (Victoria, British Columbia: Trafford Publishing, 2006), p. 615.

28. "Trained by the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) and loaned to the CIA for undercover operations, Lee was a bridge between the Mafia and the CIA...": Judyth Vary Baker, David Ferrie: Mafia Pilot, Participant in Anti-Castro Bioweapon Plot, Friend of Lee Harvey Oswald and Key to the JFK Assassination (Walterville, Oregon: Trine Day, 2014), p. 2.

29. Judyth Vary Baker, Facebook post, February 24, 2012. A Facebook friend wrote, "LHO might have worked for RFK." Judyth responded, "I WILL BACK THAT, SINCE LEE SAID RFK WAS WORKING THROUGH [GUY] BANISTER'S OFFICE." (Capitalization as in the original.)

30. Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy, alternate draft posted to alt.assassination.jfk by Ihateliars1@yahoo.com, October 29, 2001: "There is a (poor) picture of her in the Warren Report standing next to Lee while he was leafleting. There is a resemblance between the girl in the photo and contemporaneous photos of Judyth. The dress pattern in the picture matches close-up photos of a dress Judyth wore in other photos in her possession." Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance, alternate draft provided to Robert Vernon, posted by Vernon at alt.assassination.jfk, August 30, 2004: "Judyth is 90% certain that Warren Commission exhibit Pizzo 453-B, a photo of the scene, includes her standing near Lee. The picture is blurry, but there is a resemblance between the girl in the photo and contemporaneous photos of Judyth. The dress pattern in the picture matches close-up photos of a dress Judyth wore in other photos in her possession. The original film from which the still was made was recently sent by TV station WDSU, on which it aired, for archiving at the University of New Orleans. The last time we checked, it was still unarchived, in one of many unmarked boxes."

Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "No, not standing next to Lee, but in the same general area as Lee - iF [sic] that person is me. The face is too blurry to be certain. The pavement sloped upward there, as I have proven with other photos, but I cannot prove this woman is me. Though have never been 100% certain the woman was me, I remember talking to the two girls shown in the footage under consideration. In any case, Lee simply happens to be nearby, and there is little, if any, interaction with the woman, beyond a smile in her direction as he approaches with flyers. I do not remember being filmed, but was warned that filming was taking place, and to leave at once, a warning which Lee gave to me. The fact is that Lee is coming closer to the woman in the footage under consideration, and it is possible that he was about to tell me to leave. The incident happened too many years ago for me to be more specific in these claims, as I have no proof that this woman is actually me, beyond my speculation that it may have been me, as I had two dresses similar or exactly the same as the dress worn by the lady in question, and have photos of one of those dresses showing its close similarity to the dress in the footage. . . . There are none now [no photos of Oswald and Judyth] in existence."

Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "The film has now conveniently been 'borrowed' and is 'unavailable,' the last we heard, as has also occurred to some other evidence I seek, which is one reason I don't put more evidence on the internet. Related evidence -- or witnesses -- can sometimes vanish, if they become sought after. This was the main reason I tried to keep these emails private and confidential. The jury is still out on whether or not the footage is of me. I can't tell. Mr. Reitzes acts as if I have no right to speculate."

31. Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, May 5, 2004: ". . . I did manage to save enough to prove who I was and our affair. Not that there are photos of Lee and me together, none of that. We were both married and we knew we were in a clandestine operation." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 29, 2004 (regarding Judyth's statement of May 5, 2004, quoted above): "She has always said this, Dave." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 14, 2004: ". . . [Y]ou seem to conveniently forget that I've been in close contact with [Judyth] since May of 1999, and I KNOW what she did and didn't say over this period of years--I don't need to run to her to ask these things?"

Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "No, not standing next to Lee, but in the same general area as Lee - iF [sic] that person is me. The face is too blurry to be certain. The pavement sloped upward there, as I have proven with other photos, but I cannot prove this woman is me. Though have never been 100% certain the woman was me, I remember talking to the two girls shown in the footage under consideration. In any case, Lee simply happens to be nearby, and there is little, if any, interaction with the woman, beyond a smile in her direction as he approaches with flyers. I do not remember being filmed, but was warned that filming was taking place, and to leave at once, a warning which Lee gave to me. The fact is that Lee is coming closer to the woman in the footage under consideration, and it is possible that he was about to tell me to leave. The incident happened too many years ago for me to be more specific in these claims, as I have no proof that this woman is actually me, beyond my speculation that it may have been me, as I had two dresses similar or exactly the same as the dress worn by the lady in question, and have photos of one of those dresses showing its close similarity to the dress in the footage. . . . There are none now [no photos of Oswald and Judyth] in existence."

Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "What has this to do with that blurry film footage that we can't decide about? Nor did we have control of film footage taken by TV cameras." "I was talking, of course, about the fact that Lee and I did not consciously allow any photos of us to be taken. In one instance, the photo was immediately destroyed (a Polaroid). Reitzes is a nit-picker who makes mountains out of anthills."

32. Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Martin Shackelford, July 11, 1999, resent by Judyth to Shackelford and a number of others on October 20, 2004: "If this Pizzo pix [sic] turns out to be somebody else, there is still another picture out there, unless it has been destroyed, which got me into trouble at Wm. B. Reily."

33. Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail CC'ed to Dave Reitzes, November 23, 2000: "It was arranged to have Robert kept offshore most of the summer, with the oil company that accepted his job application for employment. So Robert was out of the way.. [sic] And I was a young piece of putty in Ochsner's hands." Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes, October 6, 2000: "My life was destroyed when i [sic] was asked to go to New Orleans from gainesville, [sic] FL [in the] spring of 1963. I met lee [sic], but in rebellion eloped with a man i [sic] thought I loved. they [sic] fixed that--sent him offshore almost entire summer, and out of the way, and continued to us eme [sic]. i [sic] was used, used, and so was Lee." Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes, October 7, 2000: "We [Judyth and Oswald] were first like brother and sister, both of us having marital obligations elsewhere. But Robert had been shipped offshore (on purpose, to keep the new husband out of the way) . . ." Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes, October 11, 2000: "Instead of placing me in the lab, since I had resolved to elope and marry Robert A. baker [sic] . . . they made sure he was sent offshpore [sic] almost the entire summer, and i [sic] saw almost nothing of him. And because we could arrange for a check for me at Reily's, that would make it impossible for my 'husband' such as he was to have any knowledge of the anti-Castro group I was working with . . ."

34. Judyth Vary Baker, quoted in an alt.conspiracy.jfk post of Howard Platzman, November 15, 2003: "ROBERT A. BAKER WAS AN ENGLISH MAJOR WHO WANTED TO BE A WRITER. HE WAS AT THIS TIME SWITCHING HIS STUDIES INTO THE FIELD OF GEOLOGY. BAKER WOULD BE ABSENT MOST OF THE SUMMER BECAUSE HE, HIMSELF REQUESTED FIELD EXPERIENCE -- LEAVING HIS YOUNG BRIDE ALONE IN NEW ORLEANS . . ." Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes and others, November 16, 2000: "Anyway, i [sic] convinced Robert it was HIS idea to go to New Orleans [sic] (he forgot that i [sic] told him I had to leave town and was planning to go to N.O.-- he did not want me to drop out of his life like that). So he began applying for jobs in N.O." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, September 27, 2004: "I, in fact, was married 'on the fly' to a guy who promptly vanished, taking a job out in the Gulf of Mexico deliberately, as his letter to potential employers asked that he be given FIELD WORK!"

35. Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to unknown recipients, date unknown, posted to alt.conspiracy.jfk by Ihateliars1@yahoo.com, November 8, 2001: "What we [Judyth and the conspirators] DID want was for Robert to get a job that would keep him out of town...as I had many hours of work to do away from the apartment.....there was some connection between Evangeline Seismic (where Robert had applied for a job) and Dixie Dynamite (that supplied E. S. and also had Schlumberger connections at Houma), and though I did not realize it at the time, it now seems that Robert's out-of-town job was possibly arranged, since Ochsner, et al, found out about Robert within days of my meeting Lee."

36. Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail CC'ed to Dave Reitzes, November 3, 2000: "I was hurt, too. Robert was shipped out into the Gulf--but WHY didn't he try [to] get an in-town job, if he loved me? If he had eveyr [sic] asked me 'what did you do today?' when he WAS home--i [sic] would have told him. But as weeks went by and he never asked, I became angry at his not caring, and I also felt he wanted the bigger paycheck more than having a chance for us to be together." Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes and one other recipient, November 7, 2000: "Where was my husband? . . . Robert allowed ochsner's [sic] oil friends to make sure he was kept offsore [sic] as long as possible, and it hurt my feelings again that I, a newlywed wife, had a husband who didn;t [sic] try to get an on-shore job to be with me."

Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "So far as I am aware, this was the best explanation for Robert's being hired by an oil company and being kept offshore so many weeks, mostly incommunicado. BUT - I recently read the back of a letter showing that Robert himself requested an out-of-town field work job, even though he knew I would be left alone in New Orleans if he accepted such a position. It was hard for me, for a long time, to believe Robert would deliberately request a job out of town as a newlywed, and I did try to make an excuse or two, that perhaps somebody such as Ochsner, who had friends in the oil industry such as Clint Murchison, arranged to keep Robert and me separated from each other. Dr. Ochsner definitely was upset that I was suddenly and unexpectedly married, and hoped I would get a divorce ASAP. So I did wonder at various times, until my recent review of the back of one of Robert's letters, if there had been some kind of planned attempt to separate us. Obviously, not! Mr. Reitzes does not give me the opportunity to speculate about this, but tries to make my concerns look inconsistent. Why does he do this?"

37. Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, July 3, 2003: "Jack Ruby--[Judyth] met [him] once, [he was] introduced as 'Sparky,' . . ." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, July 11, 2003: "Jack Ruby--[Judyth] met [him] once, [he was] introduced as 'Sparky,' [Judyth] didn't realize until 1999 that 'Sparky' was Jack Ruby." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 14, 2004: ". . . [Y]ou seem to conveniently forget that I've been in close contact with [Judyth] since May of 1999, and I KNOW what she did and didn't say over this period of years--I don't need to run to her to ask these things?" Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "I met Jack Ruby once, personally, for a significant period of time. I also saw Jack Ruby with Carlos Marcello and others, at a later date, at the 500 Club, and was in the same group as Jack Ruby while walking toward Clay Shaw's residence. However, there was no real interaction between Jack Ruby and me, so I do not count it as a true 'meeting.' Some people do count it as a 'meeting' because he did notice my presence, but I do not."

Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "But I thought his name was Sparky Rubenstein. There is NO inconsistency here if it is understood I did not know that the two names were for the same man. Only in Mr. Reitzes'mind [sic] is there an inconsistency, because he didn't bother to learn more about why I did not know 'Sparky' was the same man as 'Jack.' Why in the world would I ever make up such an odd thing? It makes my story harder to believe. Yet it is the truth. I really did not know they were the same person. I refused to look at ANY newspaper photos, etc.[,] after Lee was shot before my eyes on TV. I could not see the face of the man who shot Lee. And I avoided ever looking again at any of it, it made me physically ill. Thus, I never learned that the two men were the same."

38. Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy: "While Judyth was in Lee's company, she met Jack Ruby twice, in May and June of 1963, once at Ferrie's apartment and once at The 500 Club, a Marcello hang-out." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 5, 2004: ". . . [I]t doesn't much matter whether she met Ruby once or twice--citing me as a contradiction to Judyth is silly--I made an error in the post. You do understand that people can make errors writing late at night, reading dozens of idiot newsgroup posts, don't you?" Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 14, 2004: ". . . [Y]ou seem to conveniently forget that I've been in close contact with [Judyth] since May of 1999, and I KNOW what she did and didn't say over this period of years--I don't need to run to her to ask these things?"

39. "Before the Silence Came: Lee's Last Telephone Calls," draft chapter from Judyth's manuscript, posted by Robert Vernon at alt.assassination.jfk, August 30, 2004: "Dave told me that he still had a chance to get Lee out, and that he had only been connected so far with Officer Tippit's death, which he believed was a total set-up. Tippit and Sparky, he said, were friends, and it was it who was supposed to drive Lee to Red Bird airport. Unless Tippit turned out to be a traitor."

40. Martin Shackelford, "alt.assassination.jfk post, July 11, 2003: "Lee never mentioned Tippit to Judyth. The only version in which there is specific mention of Tippit is the one from the fired agent." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 14, 2004: ". . . [Y]ou seem to conveniently forget that I've been in close contact with [Judyth] since May of 1999, and I KNOW what she did and didn't say over this period of years--I don't need to run to her to ask these things?"

41. Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, July 11, 2003: "Judyth said Ruby knew an officer named Tippit--true. She didn't know whether it was the same Tippit. It wasn't."

42. Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, July 13, 2003: "As for the Tippit story, her impression is that there was confusion as to which Tippit was the one shot. Ruby did know a Tippit."

43. YouTube interview with Judyth Vary Baker, November 4, 2013, Chicago, Illinois: "My speculation is that Tippit, not too smart or whatever, never rose to [inaudible], but maybe he got along with Lee. You know. He had kids. Lee loved little, you know, little boys and girls. Loved to play with them. Who knows? ... Then I hear about the Redbird incident much later..." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, July 11, 2003: "Lee never mentioned Tippit to Judyth. The only version in which there is specific mention of Tippit is the one from the fired agent." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 14, 2004: ". . . [Y]ou seem to conveniently forget that I've been in close contact with [Judyth] since May of 1999, and I KNOW what she did and didn't say over this period of years--I don't need to run to her to ask these things?"

44. Judyth Vary Baker, Facebook post, December 18, 2013: "I STAND AS A WITNESS THAT LEE OSWALD PERSONALLY KNEW OFFICER TIPPIT. I DIDN'T DARE SPEAK THIS OUT PUBLICLY WHILE IN THE USA --BUT FROM NOW ON WILL DO SO, IN OR OUT OF THE USA ---AS THIS EXECRABLE TRAVESTY OF JUSTICE HAS NOW BECOME 'A HISTORIC EVENT' --FOISTED UPON THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND THE WORLD....IN NO POSSIBLE WAY WOULD LEE OSWALD HAVE EVER KILLED HIS FRIEND. PERIOD. IT NOW SEEMS, THOUGH IT MEANS I'LL PROBABLY NEVER BE ABLE TO RETURN TO DALLAS, WHERE I HAVE FRIENDS AND LOVED ONES, THAT I MUST SPEAK OUT ABOUT LEE'S ESCAPE PLANS. MANY RESEARCHERS ALREADY PRIVATELY KNOW--I HAVE TOLD THEM SINCE 1999 -- BUT IT SEEMS I SHOULD HAVE TAKEN THE RISKS AND SPOKEN OUT ABOUT TIPPIT BEFORE NOW, GOD FORGIVE ME. MY HOPE WAS TO OBTAIN MORE EVIDENCE, BECAUSE EVIDENCE IS SO EASILY DESTROYED."

45. Judyth Vary Baker, Facebook post, June 1, 2014. A JFK assassination researcher asked Judyth about her statement, "My speculation is that Tippit, not too smart or whatever, never rose to [inaudible], but maybe he got along with Lee. You know. He had kids. Lee loved little, you know, little boys and girls. Loved to play with them. Who knows?" (See endnote #43.) She replied: "THE 'WHO KNOWS' HAS TO DO WITH WHETHER OR NOT LEE PLAYED WITH TIPPIT'S CHILDREN. I DIDN'T KNOW. THIS DID NOT HAVE TO DO WITH WHETHER OR NOT LEE KNEW OFFICER TIPPIT. HE PROBABLY DID KNOW OFFICER TIPPIT. YOUR STATEMENT BELOW SHOWS THAT YOU MISINTERPRETED WHAT I SAID."

When asked about her claim to be a witness to an Oswald/Tippit relationship (see endnote #44), Judyth responded: "FIRST, ABOVE, YOU DELIBERATELY MISINTEPRETED MY STATEMENT. I HAD TO COUCH WHAT I KNEW AS 'SPECULATION' DURING THAT INTERVIEW BECAUSE I CULD [sic] NOT PRODUCE EVIDENCE FOR MY SPECULATION. LEE TOLD ME ENOUGH ABOUT THE POLICE OFFICER HE KNEW THAT I WAS ABLE TO SPECULATE IT WAS TIPPIT, EVEN THOUGH THERE WERE SOME 1,400 DALLAS POLICE OFFICERS. BUT I COULD NOT BE CERTAIN ENOUGH TO STATE IT AS A FACT. APPARENTLY YOU THINK I LIVE IN A VACCUM [sic] AND THAT DURING THE U.S. TOUR LAST YEAR NOBODY SPOKE TO ME IN DALLAS. NO NEW WITNESSES. NOBODY WITH MORE VERIFIABLE INFORMATION. WELL, GUESS WHAT? I GOT MORE INFORMATION. SO NOW I'M CERTAIN THAT L;EE [sic] KNEW OFFICER TIPPIT. AND I'VE BEEN TELLING SOME RESEARCHERS THIS FOR THE LAST SIX MONTHS. NOW ABOUT YOU, MICHAEL: I GAVE YOU A CHANCE TO BE HONEST, AND YOU TWISTED WHAT I SAID, RIGHT UNDER MY NOSE, NO DOUBT TO GIVE MY REPLY BACK TO ED CAGE AND HIS McADAMS GANG. I POST THIS HERE SO MY 'REAL' FACEBOOK FRIENDS CAN SEE HOW YOU TWISTED MY STATEMENT."

46. Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy (early draft posted by pseudonymous Judyth acquaintance "Shadow-It: to alt.conspiracy.jfk, August 20, 2006::"But the TV interrupted my little daydream. It was announced that a man hiding in a movie theater was apprehended as the killer of a policeman, and it was hinted that the same man might be the President's assassin. Officer J.D. Tippit, had been killed in Oak Cliff. Hearing this had chilled me the moment the words were spoken: Lee and Sparky both lived in Oak Cliff. Either one of them might have been set up to take the blame....I sat in the lab and, along with everybody else, but apart from everybody else, and watched the television. I knew Lee didn't kill the President. But Officer Tippit? I could not imagine Lee actually shooting anybody. Then I could. Then, again, I couldn't."

47. Judyth Vary Baker, Lee Harvey Oswald: The True Story of the Accused Assassin of President John F. Kennedy by His Lover (Victoria, British Columbia: Trafford Publishing, 2006), pp. 628-29: "Shortly after the announcement that JFK was dead, I heard the additional news that a policeman had been found killed in Oak Cliff. This news chilled me: Lee and 'Sparky' Rubenstein both lived in Oak Cliff, and either one of them might have been set up to take the blame on this one, I thought....I saw Lee, finally, shackled and talking in his calm way, right on TV. I heard him say he was innocent of having killed anyone. Concerning Tippit, I could not imagine Lee actually shooting anybody. Then I could. Then, again, I could not."

48. Judyth Vary Baker, Me & Lee: How I Came to Know, Love and Lose Lee Harvey Oswald (Chicago: Trine Day, 2010), pp. 526-28: "The television interrupted my daydream. A man hiding in the Texas Movie Theater had been arrested for killing a Dallas police officer. The officer, J.D. Tippit, had been shot in Oak Cliff. Hearing this chilled me to the bone, since I knew Lee's apartment was in Oak Cliff..... I knew Lee didn't kill JFK. Lee thought Kennedy was our best hope for peace. But what about Officer Tippit? While I couldn't imagine Lee actually shooting anybody, maybe Tippit had tried to shoot him, and Lee had to defend himself. Such is the weight of an accusation."

49. Judyth Vary Baker, Facebook post, December 18, 2013: "I STAND AS A WITNESS THAT LEE OSWALD PERSONALLY KNEW OFFICER TIPPIT. I DIDN'T DARE SPEAK THIS OUT PUBLICLY WHILE IN THE USA --BUT FROM NOW ON WILL DO SO, IN OR OUT OF THE USA....IN NO POSSIBLE WAY WOULD LEE OSWALD HAVE EVER KILLED HIS FRIEND. PERIOD."

50. Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy: "Lee came to believe his CIA handler, 'Mr. B.,' was actually Phillips." Judyth claims that in his final conversation with her, he instructed her to be sure to remember the name, "David Atlee Phillips." See Judyth Vary Baker, "Before the Silence Came: Lee's Last Telephone Calls," circulated draft of chapter for Deadly Alliance. Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to unknown recipients, date unknown, posted to alt.conspiracy.jfk by Ihateliars1@yahoo.com, November 8, 2001: "We (Lee and I ) by November 20, 1963, believed Phillips to be the man who Lee met in Texas at beginning of September, and I now believe Veciana [Antonio Veciana Blanch] was possibly the man who came up to Phillips, Lee said as if by a prearranged signal, so I wonder if Veciana has memory of that, if this is the same man."

Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, June 12, 2004: ". . . [M]istakes can happen. Phillips allowed Lee to be seen [by Antonio Veciana Blanch]. Lee reported some additional details of this meeting to me." Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail forwarded to Dave Reitzes with Judyth's permission, November 6, 2000: "I didn't 'know' for sure [that Phillips was 'Bishop'], I speculated, based on Lee's having met 'Bishop' in Dallas, and all we previously knew. He errs in thinking i [sic] was sure about his real name back then. Since i [sic] never met the man, I could not be certain. My surety is NOW,in [sic] the PRESENT, having seen pictures of the man that were shown to me and knowing who Phillips was." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "ALL THE STATEMENTS [relating to Oswald's CIA handler, David Phillips, etc.] are intended, I suppose, by Reitzes to show confusion, and indeed, they should show confusion, for Lee and I had no firm idea of the real name of Lee's handler. Is this some kind of crime?"

Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "THE REITZES OBSESSION CONTINUES....WITH EMPHASIS ON PHILLIPS...BISHOP...BENDER....AD NAUSEUM.... [ellipses as in original] . . . CITATION 'A' ---FOR ALL OF THE INSTANCES BELOW...and Reitzes repeats them OVER and OVER...remember this: All of these citations by Reitzes came about because they reflected the fact that Lee was never certain about the real name of his handler. In fact, if Lee HAD known the name of his handler, I am told that would have been unusual. Veciana, for example, did not know 'Phillips' as his handler, but, rather, 'Bishop.'" "The fake name problem is what generated all our anxiety. Reitzes acts as if this is inconsistency. It isn't. It proves lee [sic] did not know the name of his handler, which was a typical position, I'm told. That Lee aggressively tried to find out the name of his handler is what all these various citations reflect. If anything, it helps prove that what I'm saying about Lee is legitimate. . . . OKAY, HERE WE GO, WITH A LONG, LONG LIST OF STUFF ABOUT PHILLIPS/BISHOP/BENDER, ETC., ETC..... [ellipsis as in original]"

51. Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail forwarded to Dave Reitzes with Judyth's permission, November 12, 2000: "While Lee had reason to believe the man he met in Dallas, introduced to him as 'Bishop' was actually 'Phillips' because he never met 'Phillips' it was always speculation, though based on strong suspicions." Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy: "[Oswald's handler] Mr. B may not have been Phillips. Another CIA figure, Frank Bender, one alias of Gerry Droller, was known inside the agency as Mr. B." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 5, 2004: ". . . 'Mr. B' may or may not have been Phillips--again no real contradiction."

Judyth's response: Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "THE REITZES OBSESSION CONTINUES....WITH EMPHASIS ON PHILLIPS...BISHOP...BENDER....AD NAUSEUM.... [ellipses as in original] . . . CITATION 'A' ---FOR ALL OF THE INSTANCES BELOW...and Reitzes repeats them OVER and OVER...remember this: All of these citations by Reitzes came about because they reflected the fact that Lee was never certain about the real name of his handler. In fact, if Lee HAD known the name of his handler, I am told that would have been unusual. Veciana, for example, did not know 'Phillips' as his handler, but, rather, 'Bishop.'" "The fake name problem is what generated all our anxiety. Reitzes acts as if this is inconsistency. It isn't. It proves lee [sic] did not know the name of his handler, which was a typical position, I'm told. That Lee aggressively tried to find out the name of his handler is what all these various citations reflect. If anything, it helps prove that what I'm saying about Lee is legitimate. . . . OKAY, HERE WE GO, WITH A LONG, LONG LIST OF STUFF ABOUT PHILLIPS/BISHOP/BENDER, ETC., ETC..... [ellipsis as in original]"

52. David Lifton, alt.assassination.jfk post, November 6, 2000, citing his telephone interview with Judyth Vary Baker, March 4, 2000. (Lifton: "How did he [Oswald] know his [Phillips's] name, by the way?" Judyth: "Oh, he met him.") "During the same 24 hour period," Lifton writes, "Judyth spoke with a friend of mine, and made the same statement. She was cross examined vigorously by my friend, and Judyth insisted that was the case."

Judyth's response: Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "THE REITZES OBSESSION CONTINUES....WITH EMPHASIS ON PHILLIPS...BISHOP...BENDER....AD NAUSEUM.... [ellipses as in original] . . . CITATION 'A' ---FOR ALL OF THE INSTANCES BELOW...and Reitzes repeats them OVER and OVER...remember this: All of these citations by Reitzes came about because they reflected the fact that Lee was never certain about the real name of his handler. In fact, if Lee HAD known the name of his handler, I am told that would have been unusual. Veciana, for example, did not know 'Phillips' as his handler, but, rather, 'Bishop.'" "The fake name problem is what generated all our anxiety. Reitzes acts as if this is inconsistency. It isn't. It proves lee [sic] did not know the name of his handler, which was a typical position, I'm told. That Lee aggressively tried to find out the name of his handler is what all these various citations reflect. If anything, it helps prove that what I'm saying about Lee is legitimate. . . . OKAY, HERE WE GO, WITH A LONG, LONG LIST OF STUFF ABOUT PHILLIPS/BISHOP/BENDER, ETC., ETC..... [ellipsis as in original]"

53. Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail forwarded to Dave Reitzes with Judyth's permission, November 12, 2000: "While Lee had reason to believe the man he met in Dallas, introduced to him as 'Bishop' was actually 'Phillips' because he never met 'Phillips' it was always speculation, though based on strong suspicions." Judyth's response: Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "THE REITZES OBSESSION CONTINUES....WITH EMPHASIS ON PHILLIPS...BISHOP...BENDER....AD NAUSEUM.... [ellipses as in original] . . . CITATION 'A' ---FOR ALL OF THE INSTANCES BELOW...and Reitzes repeats them OVER and OVER...remember this: All of these citations by Reitzes came about because they reflected the fact that Lee was never certain about the real name of his handler. In fact, if Lee HAD known the name of his handler, I am told that would have been unusual. Veciana, for example, did not know 'Phillips' as his handler, but, rather, 'Bishop.'" "The fake name problem is what generated all our anxiety. Reitzes acts as if this is inconsistency. It isn't. It proves lee [sic] did not know the name of his handler, which was a typical position, I'm told. That Lee aggressively tried to find out the name of his handler is what all these various citations reflect. If anything, it helps prove that what I'm saying about Lee is legitimate. . . . OKAY, HERE WE GO, WITH A LONG, LONG LIST OF STUFF ABOUT PHILLIPS/BISHOP/BENDER, ETC., ETC..... [ellipsis as in original]"

54. Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail forwarded to Dave Reitzes with Judyth's permission, November 12, 2000: "While Lee had reason to believe the man he met in Dallas, introduced to him as 'Bishop' was actually 'Phillips' because he never met 'Phillips' it was always speculation, though based on strong suspicions." Judyth's response: Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "THE REITZES OBSESSION CONTINUES....WITH EMPHASIS ON PHILLIPS...BISHOP...BENDER....AD NAUSEUM.... [ellipses as in original] . . . CITATION 'A' ---FOR ALL OF THE INSTANCES BELOW...and Reitzes repeats them OVER and OVER...remember this: All of these citations by Reitzes came about because they reflected the fact that Lee was never certain about the real name of his handler. In fact, if Lee HAD known the name of his handler, I am told that would have been unusual. Veciana, for example, did not know 'Phillips' as his handler, but, rather, 'Bishop.'" "The fake name problem is what generated all our anxiety. Reitzes acts as if this is inconsistency. It isn't. It proves lee [sic] did not know the name of his handler, which was a typical position, I'm told. That Lee aggressively tried to find out the name of his handler is what all these various citations reflect. If anything, it helps prove that what I'm saying about Lee is legitimate. . . . OKAY, HERE WE GO, WITH A LONG, LONG LIST OF STUFF ABOUT PHILLIPS/BISHOP/BENDER, ETC., ETC..... [ellipsis as in original]"

55. Judyth Vary Baker, message posted to JFKresearch.com forum by Wim Dankbaar, November 7, 2002: "However, he met with a 'Mr. B' in Texas whom we both believed to be Phillips." Judyth's response: Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "THE REITZES OBSESSION CONTINUES....WITH EMPHASIS ON PHILLIPS...BISHOP...BENDER....AD NAUSEUM.... [ellipses as in original] . . . CITATION 'A' ---FOR ALL OF THE INSTANCES BELOW...and Reitzes repeats them OVER and OVER...remember this: All of these citations by Reitzes came about because they reflected the fact that Lee was never certain about the real name of his handler. In fact, if Lee HAD known the name of his handler, I am told that would have been unusual. Veciana, for example, did not know 'Phillips' as his handler, but, rather, 'Bishop.'" "The fake name problem is what generated all our anxiety. Reitzes acts as if this is inconsistency. It isn't. It proves lee [sic] did not know the name of his handler, which was a typical position, I'm told. That Lee aggressively tried to find out the name of his handler is what all these various citations reflect. If anything, it helps prove that what I'm saying about Lee is legitimate. . . . OKAY, HERE WE GO, WITH A LONG, LONG LIST OF STUFF ABOUT PHILLIPS/BISHOP/BENDER, ETC., ETC..... [ellipsis as in original]"

56. Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail forwarded to Dave Reitzes with Judyth's permission, November 6, 2000: ". . . Lee and I speculated and concluded that Bishop and Phillips were possibly the same person, Lee seemed certaoin [sic] of it at the end." Judyth's response: Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "THE REITZES OBSESSION CONTINUES....WITH EMPHASIS ON PHILLIPS...BISHOP...BENDER....AD NAUSEUM.... [ellipses as in original] . . . CITATION 'A' ---FOR ALL OF THE INSTANCES BELOW...and Reitzes repeats them OVER and OVER...remember this: All of these citations by Reitzes came about because they reflected the fact that Lee was never certain about the real name of his handler. In fact, if Lee HAD known the name of his handler, I am told that would have been unusual. Veciana, for example, did not know 'Phillips' as his handler, but, rather, 'Bishop.'" "The fake name problem is what generated all our anxiety. Reitzes acts as if this is inconsistency. It isn't. It proves lee [sic] did not know the name of his handler, which was a typical position, I'm told. That Lee aggressively tried to find out the name of his handler is what all these various citations reflect. If anything, it helps prove that what I'm saying about Lee is legitimate. . . . OKAY, HERE WE GO, WITH A LONG, LONG LIST OF STUFF ABOUT PHILLIPS/BISHOP/BENDER, ETC., ETC..... [ellipsis as in original]"

57. Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail forwarded to Dave Reitzes with Judyth's permission, November 6, 2000: "As you know, Lee told me he met a 'Bishop' in Dallas. While he did not say in an equation that 'Bishop' and 'Phillips' were the same person, I did understand he meant that both those persons were his handlers. The last time lee [sic] spoke to me, he implied they were possibly the same person." Judyth's response: Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "THE REITZES OBSESSION CONTINUES....WITH EMPHASIS ON PHILLIPS...BISHOP...BENDER....AD NAUSEUM.... [ellipses as in original] . . . CITATION 'A' ---FOR ALL OF THE INSTANCES BELOW...and Reitzes repeats them OVER and OVER...remember this: All of these citations by Reitzes came about because they reflected the fact that Lee was never certain about the real name of his handler. In fact, if Lee HAD known the name of his handler, I am told that would have been unusual. Veciana, for example, did not know 'Phillips' as his handler, but, rather, 'Bishop.'" "The fake name problem is what generated all our anxiety. Reitzes acts as if this is inconsistency. It isn't. It proves lee [sic] did not know the name of his handler, which was a typical position, I'm told. That Lee aggressively tried to find out the name of his handler is what all these various citations reflect. If anything, it helps prove that what I'm saying about Lee is legitimate. . . . OKAY, HERE WE GO, WITH A LONG, LONG LIST OF STUFF ABOUT PHILLIPS/BISHOP/BENDER, ETC., ETC..... [ellipsis as in original]"

58. Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail forwarded to Dave Reitzes with Judyth's permission, November 6, 2000: ". . . Lee and I speculated and concluded that Bishop and Phillips were possibly the same person, Lee seemed certaoin [sic] of it at the end." Judyth's response: Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "THE REITZES OBSESSION CONTINUES....WITH EMPHASIS ON PHILLIPS...BISHOP...BENDER....AD NAUSEUM.... [ellipses as in original] . . . CITATION 'A' ---FOR ALL OF THE INSTANCES BELOW...and Reitzes repeats them OVER and OVER...remember this: All of these citations by Reitzes came about because they reflected the fact that Lee was never certain about the real name of his handler. In fact, if Lee HAD known the name of his handler, I am told that would have been unusual. Veciana, for example, did not know 'Phillips' as his handler, but, rather, 'Bishop.'" "The fake name problem is what generated all our anxiety. Reitzes acts as if this is inconsistency. It isn't. It proves lee [sic] did not know the name of his handler, which was a typical position, I'm told. That Lee aggressively tried to find out the name of his handler is what all these various citations reflect. If anything, it helps prove that what I'm saying about Lee is legitimate. . . . OKAY, HERE WE GO, WITH A LONG, LONG LIST OF STUFF ABOUT PHILLIPS/BISHOP/BENDER, ETC., ETC..... [ellipsis as in original]"

59. Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail forwarded to Dave Reitzes with Judyth's permission, November 6, 2000: "At the end, Lee said to remember Phillips' name. I do not believe he even said Bishop and Phillips were the same people, EVEN THEN." Judyth's response: Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "THE REITZES OBSESSION CONTINUES....WITH EMPHASIS ON PHILLIPS...BISHOP...BENDER....AD NAUSEUM.... [ellipses as in original] . . . CITATION 'A' ---FOR ALL OF THE INSTANCES BELOW...and Reitzes repeats them OVER and OVER...remember this: All of these citations by Reitzes came about because they reflected the fact that Lee was never certain about the real name of his handler. In fact, if Lee HAD known the name of his handler, I am told that would have been unusual. Veciana, for example, did not know 'Phillips' as his handler, but, rather, 'Bishop.'" "The fake name problem is what generated all our anxiety. Reitzes acts as if this is inconsistency. It isn't. It proves lee [sic] did not know the name of his handler, which was a typical position, I'm told. That Lee aggressively tried to find out the name of his handler is what all these various citations reflect. If anything, it helps prove that what I'm saying about Lee is legitimate. . . . OKAY, HERE WE GO, WITH A LONG, LONG LIST OF STUFF ABOUT PHILLIPS/BISHOP/BENDER, ETC., ETC..... [ellipsis as in original]"

60. Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy: "At a meeting arranged by Ochsner's group, INCA, held to prepare for a radio interview of Lee, someone accidentally uttered the name 'David Atlee Phillips.' Lee came to believe his CIA handler, 'Mr. B.,' was actually Phillips. Judyth waited in the car as the meeting took place at Reily's." The Men Who Killed Kennedy: The Love Affair, 2003 documentary, A & E Home Video: Oswald's "main CIA contact" was "a mysterious 'Mr. B.'" Judyth Vary Baker, JFKresearch.com post, November 14, 2002 (7:56 AM): Oswald "said he wasn;t [sic] sure about David Atlee Phillips being the person who was responsible, but HE HAD OBTAINED THAT NAME. It had been heard once before in New Orleans at a meeting, the man's actual name, but no understanding of the role. And there were other names we thought were the same man, known to Lee as 'Mr. B.' Frank bender [sic] could have filled that name as well . . ."

Judyth's response: Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "THE REITZES OBSESSION CONTINUES....WITH EMPHASIS ON PHILLIPS...BISHOP...BENDER....AD NAUSEUM.... [ellipses as in original] . . . CITATION 'A' ---FOR ALL OF THE INSTANCES BELOW...and Reitzes repeats them OVER and OVER...remember this: All of these citations by Reitzes came about because they reflected the fact that Lee was never certain about the real name of his handler. In fact, if Lee HAD known the name of his handler, I am told that would have been unusual. Veciana, for example, did not know 'Phillips' as his handler, but, rather, 'Bishop.'" "The fake name problem is what generated all our anxiety. Reitzes acts as if this is inconsistency. It isn't. It proves lee [sic] did not know the name of his handler, which was a typical position, I'm told. That Lee aggressively tried to find out the name of his handler is what all these various citations reflect. If anything, it helps prove that what I'm saying about Lee is legitimate. . . . OKAY, HERE WE GO, WITH A LONG, LONG LIST OF STUFF ABOUT PHILLIPS/BISHOP/BENDER, ETC., ETC..... [ellipsis as in original]"

61. Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail forwarded to Dave Reitzes with Judyth's permission, November 12, 2000: "While Lee had reason to believe the man he met in Dallas, introduced to him as 'Bishop' was actually 'Phillips' because he never met 'Phillips' it was always speculation, though based on strong suspicions." (Compare this reference to "Bishop" to Judyth Vary Baker, message posted to JFKresearch.com forum by Wim Dankbaar, November 7, 2002: "However, he met with a 'Mr. B' in Texas whom we both believed to be Phillips.")

Judyth's initial response: Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "THE REITZES OBSESSION CONTINUES....WITH EMPHASIS ON PHILLIPS...BISHOP...BENDER....AD NAUSEUM.... [ellipses as in original] . . . CITATION 'A' ---FOR ALL OF THE INSTANCES BELOW...and Reitzes repeats them OVER and OVER...remember this: All of these citations by Reitzes came about because they reflected the fact that Lee was never certain about the real name of his handler. In fact, if Lee HAD known the name of his handler, I am told that would have been unusual. Veciana, for example, did not know 'Phillips' as his handler, but, rather, 'Bishop.'" "The fake name problem is what generated all our anxiety. Reitzes acts as if this is inconsistency. It isn't. It proves lee [sic] did not know the name of his handler, which was a typical position, I'm told. That Lee aggressively tried to find out the name of his handler is what all these various citations reflect. If anything, it helps prove that what I'm saying about Lee is legitimate. . . . OKAY, HERE WE GO, WITH A LONG, LONG LIST OF STUFF ABOUT PHILLIPS/BISHOP/BENDER, ETC., ETC..... [ellipsis as in original]"

Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "ALSO, PLEASE NOTE: Mr. Reitzes does not mention here that I had just found a reference in TIME MAGAZINE that FRANK BENDER was called 'Mr. B' during the Bay of Pigs era and was THE big name involved with the anti-Castroites at that time. WHY doesn't he be fair and show that I said this because I thought I had at last found out who 'Mr. B' was? Later, additional evidence that Phillips was 'Mr. B' came to the fore, and I changed my mind." "The reference to TIME MAGAZINE is left out. WHY? Why did Mr. Reitzes fail to show the reason why I made this statement? Did he fail to do so because it would have shown I had a reason to make this statement that was logical and consistent with my trying to understand who Mr. B. really was?It [sic] was unethical of Mr. Reitzes to leave out the reason I made this comment."

62. Judyth Vary Baker, Lee Harvey Oswald: The True Story of the Accused Assassin of President John F. Kennedy by His Lover (Victoria, British Columbia: Trafford Publishing, 2006), p. 365:

 

"All right," I asked him, "what agency do you really work for, and who is your most important handler?"

"All right, you little spy," he said, smiling, "You've won. Here's the answer: I'm loaned to the CIA," he said, "and must sometimes help the FBI, but for who my main handler is, not even God knows the answer to that. Certainly I don't."

Lee said he called him "Mr. B," because the first name given was Benson. Then another time, he slipped and said it was Bishop.

 

63. Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy (early draft posted by pseudonymous Judyth acquaintance "Shadow-It: to alt.conspiracy.jfk, August 20, 2006::"Mr. B was most likely Frank Bender, one alias of Gerry Droller, a CIA man posted to Mexico City at the same time as Phillips." Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy: "[Oswald's handler] Mr. B may not have been Phillips. Another CIA figure, Frank Bender, one alias of Gerry Droller, was known inside the agency as Mr. B."

64. Judyth Vary Baker, message posted to JFKresearch.com forum by Wim Dankbaar, November 7, 2002: "However, he met with a 'Mr. B' in Texas whom we both believed to be Phillips." Judyth's response: Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "THE REITZES OBSESSION CONTINUES....WITH EMPHASIS ON PHILLIPS...BISHOP...BENDER....AD NAUSEUM.... [ellipses as in original] . . . CITATION 'A' ---FOR ALL OF THE INSTANCES BELOW...and Reitzes repeats them OVER and OVER...remember this: All of these citations by Reitzes came about because they reflected the fact that Lee was never certain about the real name of his handler. In fact, if Lee HAD known the name of his handler, I am told that would have been unusual. Veciana, for example, did not know 'Phillips' as his handler, but, rather, 'Bishop.'" "The fake name problem is what generated all our anxiety. Reitzes acts as if this is inconsistency. It isn't. It proves lee [sic] did not know the name of his handler, which was a typical position, I'm told. That Lee aggressively tried to find out the name of his handler is what all these various citations reflect. If anything, it helps prove that what I'm saying about Lee is legitimate. . . . OKAY, HERE WE GO, WITH A LONG, LONG LIST OF STUFF ABOUT PHILLIPS/BISHOP/BENDER, ETC., ETC..... [ellipsis as in original]"

65. Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy: "Mr. B may not have been Phillips. Another CIA figure, Frank Bender, one alias of Gerry Droller, was known inside the agency as Mr. B." Judyth's response: Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "THE REITZES OBSESSION CONTINUES....WITH EMPHASIS ON PHILLIPS...BISHOP...BENDER....AD NAUSEUM.... [ellipses as in original] . . . CITATION 'A' ---FOR ALL OF THE INSTANCES BELOW...and Reitzes repeats them OVER and OVER...remember this: All of these citations by Reitzes came about because they reflected the fact that Lee was never certain about the real name of his handler. In fact, if Lee HAD known the name of his handler, I am told that would have been unusual. Veciana, for example, did not know 'Phillips' as his handler, but, rather, 'Bishop.'" "The fake name problem is what generated all our anxiety. Reitzes acts as if this is inconsistency. It isn't. It proves lee [sic] did not know the name of his handler, which was a typical position, I'm told. That Lee aggressively tried to find out the name of his handler is what all these various citations reflect. If anything, it helps prove that what I'm saying about Lee is legitimate. . . . OKAY, HERE WE GO, WITH A LONG, LONG LIST OF STUFF ABOUT PHILLIPS/BISHOP/BENDER, ETC., ETC..... [ellipsis as in original]"

66. Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy (early draft posted by pseudonymous Judyth acquaintance "Shadow-It: to alt.conspiracy.jfk, August 20, 2006::"Mr. B was most likely Frank Bender, one alias of Gerry Droller, a CIA man posted to Mexico City at the same time as Phillips." Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy: "[Oswald's handler] Mr. B may not have been Phillips. Another CIA figure, Frank Bender, one alias of Gerry Droller, was known inside the agency as Mr. B."

67. Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to unknown recipients, date unknown, posted to alt.assassination.jfk by Ihateliars1@yahoo.com, October 29, 2001: "He told me never forget that David Atlee Phillips was the man who we thought of as in the chess game, we thought he was 'Bishop' and also 'Mr. B.' But I now believe that 'Mr. B' was Bender as bpoth [sic] Phillips and bender [sic] worked together at exactly this time, and sometimes we were amazed that 'Mr. B' or 'Bishop' (yes, I know it sounds bad that we also heard the name 'Bishop') seemed to be in two places at once sometimes. Now I believe it was because both men gave us the impression that they were the same man."

Judyth's response: Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "THE REITZES OBSESSION CONTINUES....WITH EMPHASIS ON PHILLIPS...BISHOP...BENDER....AD NAUSEUM.... [ellipses as in original] . . . CITATION 'A' ---FOR ALL OF THE INSTANCES BELOW...and Reitzes repeats them OVER and OVER...remember this: All of these citations by Reitzes came about because they reflected the fact that Lee was never certain about the real name of his handler. In fact, if Lee HAD known the name of his handler, I am told that would have been unusual. Veciana, for example, did not know 'Phillips' as his handler, but, rather, 'Bishop.'" "The fake name problem is what generated all our anxiety. Reitzes acts as if this is inconsistency. It isn't. It proves lee [sic] did not know the name of his handler, which was a typical position, I'm told. That Lee aggressively tried to find out the name of his handler is what all these various citations reflect. If anything, it helps prove that what I'm saying about Lee is legitimate. . . . OKAY, HERE WE GO, WITH A LONG, LONG LIST OF STUFF ABOUT PHILLIPS/BISHOP/BENDER, ETC., ETC..... [ellipsis as in original]"

68. The Men Who Killed Kennedy: The Love Affair, 2003 documentary, A & E Home Video: Oswald's handler was "Mr. B, Mr. Bishop, or Benson or whatever, Benton," who Oswald also said was probably David Atlee Phillips. Judyth Vary Baker, Lee Harvey Oswald: The True Story of the Accused Assassin of President John F. Kennedy by His Lover (Victoria, British Columbia: Trafford Publishing, 2006), p. 365:

 

"All right," I asked him, "what agency do you really work for, and who is your most important handler?"

"All right, you little spy," he said, smiling, "You've won. Here's the answer: I'm loaned to the CIA," he said, "and must sometimes help the FBI, but for who my main handler is, not even God knows the answer to that. Certainly I don't."

Lee said he called him "Mr. B," because the first name given was Benson. Then another time, he slipped and said it was Bishop.

 

69. Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes and one other recipient, November 7, 2000: "For instance, Lee mentioned a 'Mr. B.' When we heard the name 'Bishop' we wondered if this was the 'Mr. B' who had been mentioned by Dave ferrie [sic] and by Carlos Quiroga and some other Cubans such as Sergio A." Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail forwarded to Dave Reitzes with Judyth's permission, November 12, 2000: "I was confused until almost the present by thinking that 'Mr. B' might be 'Bishop.' Now i [sic] believe that person to be Frank bender [sic]." Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to unknown recipients, date unknown, posted to alt.conspiracy.jfk by Ihateliars1@yahoo.com, November 8, 2001: "Phillips, and/or Frank Bender: involved in that. I thought (and Lee, did, too, until the end) that they were the same man until I realized sometime recently that "Mr. B" and "Bishop" were not necessarily the same person."

70. The Men Who Killed Kennedy: The Love Affair, 2003 documentary, A & E Home Video: Oswald's handler was "Mr. B, Mr. Bishop, or Benson or whatever, Benton," who Oswald also said was probably David Atlee Phillips. Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, June 12, 2004: "But Phillips was in town at least once, as 'Mr. Benson'or [sic] 'Mr. Benton.' I can't remember which anymore."

71. Judyth Vary Baker, Me & Lee: How I Came to Know, Love and Lose Lee Harvey Oswald (Walterville, Oregon: Trine Day LLC, 2010), p. 490: "Lee had gone to Dallas briefly to prepare for his trip to Mexico City. He arrived in Dallas around lunchtime and proceeded to a large prestigious building downtown, where he met two men. One was his handler, 'Mr. B' who had accidentally told him his name was 'Benton' when previously he'd said his name was 'Benson.' Disturbingly, now Lee heard this man addressed as 'Bishop' by the anti-Castro Cuban who joined them. He now realized that only the letter 'B' had been consistent in 'Mr. B's' name."

72. Judyth Vary Baker, Me & Lee: How I Came to Know, Love and Lose Lee Harvey Oswald (Walterville, Oregon: Trine Day LLC, 2010), p. 490: "Lee had gone to Dallas briefly to prepare for his trip to Mexico City. He arrived in Dallas around lunchtime and proceeded to a large prestigious building downtown, where he met two men. One was his handler, 'Mr. B' who had accidentally told him his name was 'Benton' when previously he'd said his name was 'Benson.' Disturbingly, now Lee heard this man addressed as 'Bishop' by the anti-Castro Cuban who joined them. He now realized that only the letter 'B' had been consistent in 'Mr. B's' name."

73. Judyth Vary Baker, Lee Harvey Oswald: The True Story of the Accused Assassin of President John F. Kennedy by His Lover (Victoria, British Columbia: Trafford Publishing, 2006), p. 365:

 

"All right," I asked him, "what agency do you really work for, and who is your most important handler?"

"All right, you little spy," he said, smiling, "You've won. Here's the answer: I'm loaned to the CIA," he said, "and must sometimes help the FBI, but for who my main handler is, not even God knows the answer to that. Certainly I don't."

Lee said he called him "Mr. B," because the first name given was Benson. Then another time, he slipped and said it was Bishop.

 

74. Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, June 12, 2004: "But Phillips was in town at least once, as 'Mr. Benson'or [sic] 'Mr. Benton.' I can't remember which anymore."

75. The Men Who Killed Kennedy: The Love Affair, 2003 documentary, A & E Home Video: Oswald's handler was "Mr. B, Mr. Bishop, or Benson or whatever, Benton," who Oswald also said was probably David Atlee Phillips. Judyth has elsewhere stated that "Mr. B" could be another person altogether: Gerry Droller, a.k.a. Frank Bender. See for example: Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy: "Mr. B may not have been Phillips. Another CIA figure, Frank Bender, one alias of Gerry Droller, was known inside the agency as Mr. B." Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail forwarded to Dave Reitzes with Judyth's permission,, November 12, 2000: "I was confused until almost the present by thinking that 'Mr. B' might be "Bishop." Now i [sic] believe that person to be Frank bender [sic]."

76. The Men Who Killed Kennedy: The Love Affair, 2003 documentary, A & E Home Video: Oswald's handler was "Mr. B, Mr. Bishop, or Benson or whatever, Benton," who Oswald also said was probably David Atlee Phillips.

77. Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to unknown recipients, date unknown, posted to alt.assassination.jfk by Ihateliars1@yahoo.com, October 29, 2001: "He told me never forget that David Atlee Phillips was the man who we thought of as in the chess game, we thought he was Bishop' and also 'Mr. B.' But I now believe that 'Mr. B' was Bender as bpoth [sic] Phillips and bender [sic] worked together at exactly this time, and sometimes we were amazed that 'Mr. B' or 'Bishop' (yes, I know it sounds bad that we also heard the name 'Bishop') seemed to be in two places at once sometimes. Now I believe it was because both men gave us the impression that they were the same man." Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes and one other recipient, November 7, 2000: "For instance, Lee mentioned a 'Mr. B.' When we heard the name 'Bishop' we wondered if this was the 'Mr. B' who had been mentioned by Dave ferrie [sic] and by Carlos Quiroga and some other Cubans such as Sergio A."

78. David Lifton, alt.assassination.jfk post, November 6, 2000, citing his telephone interview with Judyth Vary Baker, March 4, 2000: "But, listen, I'd overheard, we'd overheard, I'd overheard his name before, over at Reily's. They talked about a guy named Bishop, and [someone] said, 'That's Phillips,' and so I had an idea who that was."

79. Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy: "At a meeting arranged by Ochsner's group, INCA, held to prepare for a radio interview of Lee, someone accidentally uttered the name 'David Atlee Phillips.' Lee came to believe his CIA handler, 'Mr. B.,' was actually Phillips. Judyth waited in the car as the meeting took place at Reily's." Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes and one other recipient, November 7, 2000: ". . , [I]t was lee [sic] who overheard the 'Phillips' name dropped after the "Bishop" name was dropped, but even then, we did not think they were the same man. Why? because [sic] the conversation lee [sic] overheard was speculation--it was brought up, not pinned down, and only was indeed a passing remark. . . . It isn;t [sic] just hearing a name fropped [sic] in a conference by INCA executives--LEE heard that and told me about it, when i [sic] say i [sic] overheard anything, i [sic] overheard a few things, but not exactly that. between [sic] both of us, Lee and I learned an amazing amt. of detail." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "Lee Oswald heard the name 'Phillips' mentioned in the context of 'Bishop' during a meeting held on Reily premises. Lee told me when he returned to the car. I had heard the names at some point, but not in context with each other."

80. Harrison Edward Livingstone, The Radical Right and the Murder of John F. Kennedy: Stunning Evidence in the Assassination of the President (Victoria, British Columbia: Trafford Publishing, 2006), p. 153, quoting Judyth Vary Baker: "At another time, Oswald told Judyth that he wasn't sure who his handler or case officer was -- but he named 'Mr. Benson, Mr. Bishop, or David Atlee Phillips."

81. Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "THE REITZES OBSESSION CONTINUES....WITH EMPHASIS ON PHILLIPS...BISHOP...BENDER....AD NAUSEUM.... [ellipses as in original] . . . CITATION 'A' ---FOR ALL OF THE INSTANCES BELOW...and Reitzes repeats them OVER and OVER...remember this: All of these citations by Reitzes came about because they reflected the fact that Lee was never certain about the real name of his handler. In fact, if Lee HAD known the name of his handler, I am told that would have been unusual. Veciana, for example, did not know 'Phillips' as his handler, but, rather, 'Bishop.'" "The fake name problem is what generated all our anxiety. Reitzes acts as if this is inconsistency. It isn't. It proves lee [sic] did not know the name of his handler, which was a typical position, I'm told. That Lee aggressively tried to find out the name of his handler is what all these various citations reflect. If anything, it helps prove that what I'm saying about Lee is legitimate. . . . OKAY, HERE WE GO, WITH A LONG, LONG LIST OF STUFF ABOUT PHILLIPS/BISHOP/BENDER, ETC., ETC..... [ellipsis as in original]"

82. Black Op Radio, Episode 171, May 13, 2004, Part 1: "Yes, I was introduced once to Guy Banister." Judyth Vary Baker, JFKresearch.com post, February 14, 2003 (responding to Rich DellaRosa): "I was introduced to Mr. Banister 9that [sic] is ONE N [sic], not two, Rich). his [sic] credentials were on the wall." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, July 11, 2003: "Guy Banister--[Judyth] met him once, not introduced by name." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 14, 2004: ". . . [Y]ou seem to conveniently forget that I've been in close contact with [Judyth] since May of 1999, and I KNOW what she did and didn't say over this period of years--I don't need to run to her to ask these things?"

Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "I met Guy Banister on only one occasion, when I posed as Lee's wife and was introduced to him. I saw him later at some little distance from me on a second occasion where I know he saw me as well, in his building." Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "CITATION 'B' IS TO BE USED FOR ALL THE SO-CALLED INCONSISTENCIES DAVE REITZES TRIES TO WEDGE OUT OF MY TESTIMONY, BELOW. ARE YOU AS BORED AS I AM WITH THIS? . . . I was introduced to Guy Banister by Lee, in Banister's office, in the presence of two secretaries, while posing as Lee's wife, Marina. On a second occasion, I was in Banister's building and Banister acknowledged I was there, we caught each other's eye but did not speak. I thus met him twice, but only was introduced to him once. (THIS IS CITATION 'B')"

83. Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes, October 7, 2000: "I met Banister only twice." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 5, 2004: "The Banister items . . . are also not contradictory--she met Banister twice, on one of those occasions she was introduced to him." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "I met Guy Banister on only one occasion, when I posed as Lee's wife and was introduced to him. I saw him later at some little distance from me on a second occasion where I know he saw me as well, in his building." Judyth's response: Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "CITATION 'B' IS TO BE USED FOR ALL THE SO-CALLED INCONSISTENCIES DAVE REITZES TRIES TO WEDGE OUT OF MY TESTIMONY, BELOW. ARE YOU AS BORED AS I AM WITH THIS? . . . I was introduced to Guy Banister by Lee, in Banister's office, in the presence of two secretaries, while posing as Lee's wife, Marina. On a second occasion, I was in Banister's building and Banister acknowledged I was there, we caught each other's eye but did not speak. I thus met him twice, but only was introduced to him once. (THIS IS CITATION 'B')"

84. Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy: ". . . ex-FBI man, now-CIA operative, Guy Banister . . ."

85. Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes, September 13, 2003: "Dave, I never said Banister had anything to do with the CIA." See also Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 5, 2004: "As for his [Banister's] CIA involvement, that remains uncertain among many people, not just Judyth. You've found one meaningless contradiction--congratulations." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "Guy Banister had connections with the CIA. I have speculated, based on what I was told, that he was working in cooperation with the CIA and the FBI." Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "In response to the quotes: Banister apparently cooperated with both agencies when it was worth it to him. I should have been more specific in the response, below, to Dave, when I said Banister had nothing to do with the CIA. I should have qualified that statement. The 'to do' had to do with his belonging to the agency as an agent. I didn't make that clear, and thus, in this entire page, we finally come up with a single, real inconsistency, mainly because I meant Banister wasn't an agent. But the sentence indicates he had nothing to do with CIA. That wasn't so."

86. Judyth Vary Baker, Lee Harvey Oswald: The True Story of the Accused Assassin of President John F. Kennedy by His Lover (Victoria, British Columbia: Trafford Publishing, 2006), p. 57: "While pretending to hunt for a job, Lee was actually required to spend significant time working with ex-FBI and CIA asset Guy Banister . . ." Ibid., p. 95: Banister "had ties to HUAC and the CIA . . ." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "Guy Banister had connections with the CIA. I have speculated, based on what I was told, that he was working in cooperation with the CIA and the FBI."

87. Judyth Vary Baker, Lee Harvey Oswald: The True Story of the Accused Assassin of President John F. Kennedy by His Lover (Victoria, British Columbia: Trafford Publishing, 2006), p. 96: "It took only moments for me to realize that these people [Guy Banister and others] really were engaged in several anti-Castro and anti-subversive projects that were sponsored by the government and/or the CIA."

88. Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, September 11, 2004: "Inventing imaginary contradictions again, I see, Dave. Judyth SAW Clay Shaw twice. On ONE of those occasions, she MET him. As Howard noted, she didn't KNOW him--just introduced once. I hope reality isn't too complicated and confusing for you, Dave." Phone: Howard Platzman, e-mail to Dave Reitzes, October 9, 2000: "It was in June or so of last year that I first saw Judyth's rambling text. She reports on a call from [a man using the name] Lambert to Reily's and she says, matter of factly, that it was [Clay] Shaw. . . . In another part of her text, she recalls accompanying Lee, Shaw, and Ferrie to the airport, where they (not including her) took an overnight trip to Canada."

Hotel trysts: Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy: "At the end of August, Shaw paid for the last of several hotel trysts for Judyth and Lee. According to Judyth, Shaw felt sorry for them." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "I was introduced briefly to Clay Shaw once, and shook his hand. I later recognized him with others at The 500 Club, and Lee and I followed his group to his house, but did not enter there. Lee did know Clay Shaw. I do not consider this 'knowing' Clay Shaw. I was once introduced briefly to George W. Bush once, and shook his hand. I later recognized HIM at a Houston-area political meeting I covered as a reporter. That doesn't mean I know George W. Bush, even though we lived in the same city for almost two decades." Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "I directly met Clay Shaw only once. I was also in the same group with him once, but did not speak to him. In conclusion, [I] did not know Clay Shaw personally."

89. Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, July 24, 2003: "The reference didn't relate to the flight. Someone pointed out a man to her as 'Lambert,' and she later saw the man again, identified as Shaw." On September 26, 2004, I posted a message to alt.assassination.jfk asking Martin to clarify whether Judyth met Shaw on either of these occasions. I repeated the question on September 28, 2004. As of October 18, 2004, Shackelford has not responded. Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "I was introduced briefly to Clay Shaw once, and shook his hand. I later recognized him with others at The 500 Club, and Lee and I followed his group to his house, but did not enter there. Lee did know Clay Shaw. I do not consider this 'knowing' Clay Shaw. I was once introduced briefly to George W. Bush once, and shook his hand. I later recognized HIM at a Houston-area political meeting I covered as a reporter. That doesn't mean I know George W. Bush, even though we lived in the same city for almost two decades."

Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "I directly met Clay Shaw only once. I was also in the same group with him once, but did not speak to him. In conclusion, [I] did not know Clay Shaw personally."

90. Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, July 11, 2003: "Clay Shaw--Judyth met him once. No biggie." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 14, 2004: ". . . [Y]ou seem to conveniently forget that I've been in close contact with [Judyth] since May of 1999, and I KNOW what she did and didn't say over this period of years--I don't need to run to her to ask these things?" Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "I directly met Clay Shaw only once. I was also in the same group with him once, but did not speak to him. In conclusion, [I] did not know Clay Shaw personally."

91. Howard Platzman, e-mail to Dave Reitzes, June 19, 2000: "My witness [Judyth] knew Ferrie, not Shaw." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, September 11, 2004: "Inventing imaginary contradictions again, I see, Dave. Judyth SAW Clay Shaw twice. On ONE of those occasions, she MET him. As Howard noted, she didn't KNOW him--just introduced once. I hope reality isn't too complicated and confusing for you, Dave." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "I was introduced briefly to Clay Shaw once, and shook his hand. I later recognized him with others at The 500 Club, and Lee and I followed his group to his house, but did not enter there. Lee did know Clay Shaw. I do not consider this 'knowing' Clay Shaw. I was once introduced briefly to George W. Bush once, and shook his hand. I later recognized HIM at a Houston-area political meeting I covered as a reporter. That doesn't mean I know George W. Bush, even though we lived in the same city for almost two decades." Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "I directly met Clay Shaw only once. I was also in the same group with him once, but did not speak to him. In conclusion, [I] did not know Clay Shaw personally."

92. Met with Marcello: Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy: "Judyth personally met other plotters, including Banister, Shaw, and Marcello . . ." Black Op Radio, Episode 171, May 13, 2004, Part 1: Judyth plays a portion of an audiotape recording with Anna Lewis Vincent, where Vincent describes a meeting between herself, her late husband David F. Lewis, Judyth, Oswald, Jack Ruby, and Marcello: "So we go to the 500 Club and we met there. There was me, Judy, David, Lee we met with, Carlos Marcellus [sic] and Jack Ruby." Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes, November 6, 2000: "I was in the poor excuse for a library out at the brand new university there when everything was military world war II temporary buildings and quonset [sic] huts and stuff, and blazing sun outside. . . . This was the same day Marcello came by out there, on the brand new grassy area and new sidewalk area there, with mafia, who were visiting from Chicago, in a black limo (usually Marcello didn;t [sic] go that fancy, at least, not that summer). He had a woman in the car with them give Lee and me each a martini -- from the limo. We threw the drinks out but kept the little tray and the two glasses."

Judyth informed one researcher via e-mail that Oswald drove her to Marcello's country estate in Jefferson Parish, known as Churchill Farms, on two occasions: Judyth Vary Baker, responses to questions e-mailed to her by rouser@core.com, posted by rouser@core.com to alt.assassination.jfk, November 27, 2003: "I have described another time Lee drove me-out to Marcello's Churchill Farms. There were two incidents of driving, not just one. I had to sit in the car out there, but so did a few other ladies." "That Little Thing": Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes and others, November 22, 2000 (writing about herself in the third person): "If you have any witness out there who rememvers [sic] 'that little thing' as Carlos Marcello and others called her . . . now is the time to bring out what you know." Spared by Marcello: Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes and others, November 22, 2000 (writing about herself in the third person): "In the end, Lee Oswald was murdered for his part in penetrating the assassination ring he had joined in hopes of destroying. Judyth, liked by Marcello, was spared IF she would keep her mouth shut and withdraw from the medical community. Judyth complied." Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail forwarded to Dave Reitzes, September 27, 2000: "Don't worry, I'm safe, because they respect Carlos Marcello's original order to leave me alone so long as I do not mention the names of anybody still alive, or too close to anybody alive, and i [sic] have not and will not. I would be the deadest meat in the world if I said everything i [sic] know."

Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes, October 7, 2000: ". . . [O]ne of the things that saved me was Carlos' [sic] Marcello's fondness for me and my favorite girlfriend in New Orleans." Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes and one other recipient, November 7, 2000: "I was fortnate [sic] in that carlos [sic] marcello [sic], just as he did for Anna, was kind enough to protect me from harm. It was his personal word that I would not talk." Tabs picked up by Marcello: Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Terry Mauro, posted by Mauro to JFKresearch.com, December 29, 2002: "I ate with Lee downtown, we had free access to The Five Hundred Club, a free tab, had to pay nothing, same for Court of Two Sisters and a couple of other places run by Marcello's people, where we could come in as long as it wasn;t [sic] night-time and order anything we wanted, tab on Marcello."

Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail forwarded to Dave Reitzes with Judyth's permission, October 29, 2000: ". . . Lee liked to take me to places called 'Lee' just for a blast. That is why we also went out to thre [sic] House of lkee [sic] and I [sic] found out that critter was in tight with the mafia, because the meal was free(Marcello [sic] paid the tab wherever we went where the mob owned or part-owned a place." Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail forwarded to Dave Reitzes, October 2, 2000: ". . . THESE WERE NIGHTCLUBS...let's see, Five Hundred Club, House of Lee (restaurant, only one), Court of Two (or was it three) Sisters, and hotel meals, almost all of them lunches and a few early dinners because we did this during the day. . . . [T]hey brought the tab over, and Lee scribbled something on it, but it was shown to us 'paid' at Five Hundred Club. Other places, the tab was picked up later when Lee gave them the bill. If Marcello was ever present in a place and we were also there, the couple of times that happened, he had the bill presented to lee [sic] and it was signed, paid off."

Miscellaneous remarks concerning Marcello: Black Op Radio, Episode 171, May 13, 2004, Part 1: "I mean, uh, Marcello was a very good looking guy. He was the same height I was. . . . [O]ne of the reason[s] I am alive is . . . one time, Lee and I were walking past St. Louis Cathedral and Marcello was not allowed to come into New Orleans, but he did all of the time. He always had this lawyer with him to say something like, 'Well I'm here for a funeral,' or whatever, you know, because he had an injunction to stay in Jefferson Parish. (Laughs.) He never followed it, he was so powerful. But, at any rate, he was walking along and Frank Ragano was with him and his brothers, Frank and Sammy was [sic] with him and all that. And as he went by he tipped his hat to me, because he knew who I was. And, I, I, all my eyes were on Lee and I never even saw it. Frank Ragano came back and said, 'What's the matter with you? Have you no respect for this man? Do you realize that you've ignored him?' I said, 'I didn't even see him.' And, he went back and they all laughed . . . So, they had a big laugh and Dave Ferrie convinced them that, you know I, it's true, I, I, I have very bad, um, I, I, I, I just am very bad at, at recognizing people's faces and things. It's just terrible. It's just part of who I am. . . . ." [Anita Langley asks: "So you think that that little bit probably brought you a little bit extra leeway and they left you alone?"] "Oh, yes, it did. 'Cause they, they laughed at me. They saw me as the absent-minded professor. It was true. I didn't even recognize Marcello. You can't miss him, but I did."

Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "The enormous quote [above] has many sections. None of it proves I 'knew' Carlos Marcello. What is shown only proves I met him under the briefest of circumstances, and that included no direct conversation with him at any time. Reitzes places a huge mass of quotes here, and expects this to 'document' his statement."

93. Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, July 11, 2003: "Carlos Marcello--[Judyth has] never claimed to have spoken with him." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, July 10, 2003: At most, Judyth describes "seeing Marcello in a public place in New Orleans . . ." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, July 28, 2004: "Met and 'spoken with' aren't the same thing, Dave. I love the way you see contradictions in apples and oranges." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 3, 2004: "She [Judyth] has never claimed that she knew Rosselli or Phillips, and not Marcello, Ragano or Banister, unless being introduced and brief contact is enough to claim that one 'knows' a person." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 14, 2004: ". . . [Y]ou seem to conveniently forget that I've been in close contact with [Judyth] since May of 1999, and I KNOW what she did and didn't say over this period of years--I don't need to run to her to ask these things?"

Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "I never 'knew' Carlos Marcello - in fact, I barely met him in a series of very brief encounters. Lee and I were confronted by Marcello and some of his friends and at least one lawyer while walking under the Colonnades at St. Louis Cathedral. Marcello was at first upset because I did not acknowledge his gesture of 'tipping' his face toward me as a polite gesture as we passed each other there. Then he laughed when he realized I hadn't recognized him at all. After he picked up our tab at The 500 Club once, every time we came in there after that, it was free. So were several other places we went to, after that. That's all I know. . . . Reitzes makes mountains out of thimblefuls. I met Marcello. Did I know him? Did you ever shake the hand of somebody famous? Did you know them personally?"

Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "Marcello wasn't even sure of my name, which he may have known only as 'J.' Does that sound like he KNEW me? He just liked my looks and thought I was a 'cute little thing.' He also said I could not find my way out of a paper bag. I would not say that he had any real knowledge of who I was, except that I was with Lee, and was involved in the cancer project Dave Ferrie was interested in. . . . This [Marcello picking up tabs for Oswald and Judyth] was because of Lee's connections, not because of Marcello knowing me. . . . Martin Shackelford is correct. I never spoke a single word, directly, to Carlos Marcello in my life. I did speak to Frank Ragano once, who delivered a message to him, on the street by St. Louis Cathedral."

94. "Before the Silence Came: Lee's Last Telephone Calls," draft chapter from Judyth's manuscript, posted by Robert Vernon at alt.assassination.jfk, August 30, 2004: "Lee himself knew that Richard Nagell, one of his doppelgangers, had purposely gotten himself arrested for fear of being set up as a patsy. Nagell carried Lee's Hidell name -- a name used by more than one person I had heard about----and other incriminating ID. Nagell let it be known that he refused to become a designated patsy. He may have thought Lee was the real thing, Lee told meC [sic] that perhaps Castro had commissioned Lee to kill the President. Having heard of some of the escape plans that Lee was trying to form in an attempt, of course, to get out of Dallas after he had done all he could (and not to kill, but to save, though Nagell didn;t [sic] know that), Richard Case Nagell, fearing he'd be set up in Lee's place, may have deliberately got himself arrested and out of the action."

Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "I only saw the name 'Nagell' and never heard the other part of the name. I assume Richard Case Nagell and 'Nagell' are the same person. Lee told me he shared information with this man and that both of them were in the same 'project' together. Other of my statements were made based on the name 'Hidell' which Lee mentioned in relation to Nagell as a name they shared in the project. I have made statements of speculation based on this basic knowledge. I also remember the word 'doppelganger' as used by Lee when describing his relationship with Nagell but that's about all I can remember. Lee knew that Nagell had been arrested. He probably told me this during one of our telephone conversations."

95. Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, September 12, 2003: "Citing Richard Case Nagell, he [John McAdams] assumes she is referring to Nagell when she only had a vague recollection of a 'Nagy or Nagell.' Many researchers will recognized [sic] the name Nagy as well, so it's hardly a given that she heard 'Nagell.'" Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 14, 2004: ". . . [Y]ou seem to conveniently forget that I've been in close contact with [Judyth] since May of 1999, and I KNOW what she did and didn't say over this period of years--I don't need to run to her to ask these things?" Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "I only saw the name 'Nagell' and never heard the other part of the name. I assume Richard Case Nagell and 'Nagell' are the same person. Lee told me he shared information with this man and that both of them were in the same 'project' together. Other of my statements were made based on the name 'Hidell' which Lee mentioned in relation to Nagell as a name they shared in the project. I have made statements of speculation based on this basic knowledge. I also remember the word 'doppelganger' as used by Lee when describing his relationship with Nagell but that's about all I can remember. Lee knew that Nagell had been arrested. He probably told me this during one of our telephone conversations."

Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "Yes, [the material cited to show she claimed that Oswald spoke to her about Nagell (see below) is] a quote from a DRAFT CHAPTER... RE NAGELL (sp?)People [sic] have occasionally asked me about Nagell, and the name was familiar to me. Why? Because I had seen the name 'Nagy' or Nagell? on a clipboard just above Lee's name, and asked him if this was a Hungarian name. Lee told me the name I was looking at was under a project name called HIDELL. With that man." "I concluded that the name was Nagell, since everyone kept bringing up this name, but my conclusion was based on the certainty of others. Because of my inability to be certain, this material was not intended to be in the final draft of the book because, though the material is written as a string of facts, in my final edit, it was all removed.People [sic] had convinced me it must be Nagell because Lee mentioned the Hidell project as linked to someone who had been arrested and who was doing the same things he was, which is why I used the word 'doppelganger'? by the way, that word was used in response to another email where that word was introduced in a different conversation." "I did confide my beliefs, together with what Lee had told me, and how they fit into the Nagell scenario, to a few people who promised to keep these speculations confidential. They helped me complete the picture of Nagell's relationship to Lee. These statements were placed in an early draft of the book Deadly Alliance, a book that had too many speculations, as well as too many insertions by others in it. In the end, I simply didn't have enough proof that Nagell was the man Lee had been working with, even though so many puzzle pieces seemed to fit very well. Mr. McAdams is also presenting these details as if they were part of my testimony. I have tried hard to fit pieces together based on the fragments of knowledge I have. In many cases, my fragments are enough to piece together what actually occurred. In other cases, there simply isn't enough original knowledge to be sure. In the Nagell situation, there simply isn't enough knowledge to be sure. My best guess is that Nagell WAS involved. But it's just a best guess. It's not my OFFICIAL stance. That book was being edited when it was hijacked, and both Reitzes AND McAdams know this was not the final version by any means. . . . I supplied my best guess to the fragments of information I had. The material was never intended as part of my testimony. It was a private reconstruction and may be inaccurate."

Material cited re: Nagell: "Before the Silence Came: Lee's Last Telephone Calls," draft chapter from Judyth's manuscript, posted by Robert Vernon at alt.assassination.jfk, August 30, 2004: "Lee himself knew that Richard Nagell, one of his doppelgangers, had purposely gotten himself arrested for fear of being set up as a patsy. Nagell carried Lee's Hidell name -- a name used by more than one person I had heard about----and other incriminating ID. Nagell let it be known that he refused to become a designated patsy. He may have thought Lee was the real thing, Lee told meC [sic] that perhaps Castro had commissioned Lee to kill the President. Having heard of some of the escape plans that Lee was trying to form in an attempt, of course, to get out of Dallas after he had done all he could (and not to kill, but to save, though Nagell didn;t [sic] know that), Richard Case Nagell, fearing he'd be set up in Lee's place, may have deliberately got himself arrested and out of the action."

Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "I only saw the name 'Nagell' and never heard the other part of the name. I assume Richard Case Nagell and 'Nagell' are the same person. Lee told me he shared information with this man and that both of them were in the same 'project' together. Other of my statements were made based on the name 'Hidell' which Lee mentioned in relation to Nagell as a name they shared in the project. I have made statements of speculation based on this basic knowledge. I also remember the word 'doppelganger' as used by Lee when describing his relationship with Nagell but that's about all I can remember. Lee knew that Nagell had been arrested. He probably told me this during one of our telephone conversations."

96. Judyth Vary Baker, Lee Harvey Oswald: The True Story of the Accused Assassin of President John F. Kennedy By His Lover (Victoria, British Columbia: Trafford Publishing, 2006), p. 582.

97. Mentor: "Judyth's Story," outline provided to Robert Vernon on December 23, 1999, posted by Vernon at alt.assassination.jfk, August 30, 2004: "Judyth had already achieved a reputation as a child prodigy in cancer research. Her mentor, Dr. Alton Ochsner, of the famed Ochsner Cancer Clinic [sic] in New Orleans . . ." The Men Who Killed Kennedy: The Love Affair, 2003 documentary, A & E Home Video: "On top of that, he'd [Ochsner] been telling me what to do for a couple of years now, and was interested in everything I was doing." Worked for Ochsner: The Men Who Killed Kennedy: The Love Affair, 2003 documentary, A & E Home Video: "In the spring of 1963 Judyth was invited to join Dr. Ochsner in New Orleans on a temporary assignment. It was an exciting offer for the young scientist. The Ochsner Clinic and its founder were world-renowned." In that documentary Judyth states, "Dr. Alton Ochsner . . . said he needed me there and that he wanted me to work in the bone cancer lab with Dr. Mary Sherman."

Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes, October 11, 2000: "Originally i [sic] was suppposed [sic] to just work on the get-Castro project in the osteosarcoma [sic] and orthpedic [sic] surgery sector at Ochsner's clinic." Later, according to Judyth, Ochsner was persuaded by Lee Oswald to use Judyth on a different, clandestine project involving the assassination of Fidel Castro. The Men Who Killed Kennedy: The Love Affair, 2003 documentary, A & E Home Video: "Shortly after moving in, Judyth had a meeting with Alton Ochsner at this hospital [Charity Hospital of Louisiana], her first since arriving in New Orleans. She did not go alone." In the documentary Judyth states: "Lee accompanied me there and told me that he had to go in first to talk to Dr. Ochsner. This made me recognize that he had already had a prior association with Ochsner. When I went in Dr. Ochsner began to explain to me . . . about the project that he had been working on for over a year. And this clearly had to do with working with these deadly cancer strains that he knew I was well adept at handling. The idea was to try and get Castro ill, very ill, and eliminated through what seemed a natural cause, in this case cancer. . . . At any rate, at the end of the summer, he promised me that I would skip two years of school, go directly into medical school, at Tulane Medical School. Of course, how could I say no?" Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes, October 7, 2000: "I was a medical liason [sic] between Ferrie's 'cancer lab' and what was really being done there, connecting this with Dr. Alton Ochsner . . ."

Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to unknown recipients, date unknown, posted to alt.conspiracy.jfk by Ihateliars1@yahoo.com, November 8, 2001: "I have a great deal of circumstantial evidence and the knowledge and training and some actual pieces of evidence to suggest that I did work with David Ferrie and Dr. Mary Sherman under Dr. Alton Ochsner, whose direction of me is establishable [sic] through my newspaper articles, etc. tracing my specialized training and the fact that i [sic] ended up in New Orleans, of all places, from Florida, in April of 1963. It is who i [sic] knew and what they did and what we did that then comes into play: i [sic] was in the center of the effort in New Orleans to kill Castro, and my knowledge makes it clear what went on later, and why." Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes, October 21, 2000: "It ruined my life, that summer of '63 when ochsner [sic] sent me money for a bus ticket on trailways [sic] to go to New orleans [sic] and 'help him out in a project.'"

Miscellaneous references to Ochsner: Judyth Vary Baker (neworleans63@aol.com), post to alt.conspiracy.jfk and alt.assassination.jfk, June 3, 2002: "Dr. Ochsner met both me and Lee Oswald at Charity Hospital a couple of times. We went into a small room that was set aside, like many others there, to see patients." Judyth Vary Baker (neworleans63@aol.com), post to alt.conspiracy.jfk and alt.assassination.jfk, June 4, 2002: "Once I was asked to meet Dr. O. -- by myself -- at Tulane Medical Library. . . . I only met Dr. O. four or five times. . . . Anybody who thinks this man was a pleasant fellow who smiled and did surgery and somehow had all these important latinos [sic] in high places using him as their personal physician by some kind of luck -- who had Clint Murchison financing entire buildings and Mr. hunt [sic] sending him cadillacs [sic] or whatever---if you think this man was a benign sweetie, you did not know the man I knew. He was violently inclined. He had a terrible temper and several times on the telephone yelled at me and thrashed me verbally so hard that he made me cry." The Men Who Killed Kennedy: The Love Affair, 2003 documentary, A & E Home Video: "Well, I did something I had been told not to do. I wrote a note to Dr. Ochsner and I signed it with my initials, 'J. A.,' and in it I protested the use of human beings at this stage in the project under the grounds that these were unwitting volunteers. They were not aware that they were going to be injected with live cancer cells and the goal was to kill them with it. And of course they weren't going to be volunteering for that! So I did object. And Ochsner called me on the phone, and he was furious, and said I never should have written anything that was linked to me by any kind of paper or handwriting or anything. If I had any objections I should have told him in person. And he said at that time that both Lee and I were expendable. And then he slammed the phone down. By expendable, he meant -- it was very clear to me and Lee both -- that they could get rid of us at any time if we were going to cause problems, because this was a project that was much, much bigger than any little Lee Oswald or any little Judy Baker."

98. Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 29, 2004: "Judyth DOESN'T 'claim' to have 'worked for' Alton Ochsner--there was no formal relationship there." See also Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 29, 2004: "She says that she worked on a secret project that [Ochsner] initiated--she worked for Ferrie, supervised by Dr. Mary Sherman--Ochsner had no direct involvement . . ." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 14, 2004: ". . . [Y]ou seem to conveniently forget that I've been in close contact with [Judyth] since May of 1999, and I KNOW what she did and didn't say over this period of years--I don't need to run to her to ask these things?" Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "I never worked DIRECTLY for Dr. Alton Ochsner. I have never claimed to. Dr. Ochsner mentored me in my cancer research educational progress between 1961 and 1963, as he had done for thousands of other medical students, though for very few pre-meds, and even fewer females. I was promised a summer internship with Dr. Mary Sherman, Ochsner's only female lab director, where he said I would feel more comfortable, and Dr. Ochsner did initially arrange those plans for me. He also promised to obtain an early admittance into medical school at Tulane for me (I was only a college sophomore and would thus skip two years) in the fall of 1963."

Regarding the quote, "Dr. Alton Ochsner . . . said he needed me there and that he wanted me to work in the bone cancer lab with Dr. Mary Sherman": Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "BUT IT DIDN'T TURN OUT THAT WAY. SO NO, I NEVER DID END UP WORKING FOR OCHSNER. REITZES IS WRONG. . . . IN NONE OF THIS [see previous endnote] IS THERE ANYTHING ABOUT MY WORKING FOR OCHSNER. IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. I WAS TO HAVE WORKED WITH DR. SHERMAN . NOTE THAT THE OUTCOME OF THE MEETING WAS A PROMISE THAT I'D ENTER MEDICAL SCHOOL. . . . I REPEAT. I DID NOT WORK FOR OCHSNER. I WORKED FOR DR. SHERMAN AND WITH DAVE FERRIE ON OCHSNER'S PROJECT. I WAS NEVER PAID A NICKEL FOR MY WORK, WHICH WAS EXHAUSTING, EITHER. THAT ANGERED LEE." "None of this":

99. Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy: "Judyth personally met other plotters, including Banister, Shaw, and Marcello . . ." Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to unknown recipients, date unknown, posted to alt.assassination.jfk by Ihateliars1@yahoo.com, October 29, 2001: "It is who i [sic] knew and what they did and what we did that then comes into play: i [sic] was in the center of the effort in New Orleans to kill Castro, and my knowledge makes it clear what went on later, and why. I have also showed how close a relationship Ochsner and Shaw really had, closer than was realized . . ." Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes, October 11, 2000: "I have given you a few sentences of information, perhaps the most important here being the fact that as far as I am aware, Shaw and ochsner [sic] (yes, i [sic] can link them in this with other info I have) were out to get Castro." There are also hints in some of Judyth's writings that Shaw had something to do with JFK's assassination. See for example: Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy: "Lee and Judyth actually liked the Kennedys; they never thought they would be racing a deadline to keep him alive. In private, Ferrie told them that he opposed the assassination; he was only putting on an act for Shaw, who represented Texas money in New Orleans."

100. Judyth Vary Baker, JFKresearch.com post, February 14, 2003: "I have never said Shaw was a co-conspirator. I said Ochsner distanced himself from Shaw deliberately by replacing him at International House March 23, 1962, when he began the project. However [sic], Shaw had his ways to find out what Ochsner was up to, important to us. There's more, this is exhausting me. Many have seen the evidence linking Ochsner, i [sic] have given them a lot of leads." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "I do not know the full extent of Clay Shaw's involvement in the Ochsner-directed plot, though he knew of it and condoned it and cooperated in some aspects, such as loaning the Cadillac, which he was himself required to drive in case of an accident, for the 'official car' look needed to enter the prisoner convoy coming from Angola. That he was involved to some degree is true." Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "I directly met Clay Shaw only once. I was also in the same group with him once, but did not speak to him. In conclusion, [I] did not know Clay Shaw personally. . . . ADDENDUM: I HAVE NEVER, EVER SAID THAT CLAY SHAW OR GUY BANISTER WERE PLOTTERS. IN FACT, I BELIEVE CLAY SHAW TO HAVE BEEN INNOCENT OF ANY SUCH DESIGNS."

101. Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy: "Judyth personally met other plotters, including Banister, Shaw, and Marcello . . ."

102. Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "I directly met Clay Shaw only once. I was also in the same group with him once, but did not speak to him. In conclusion, [I] did not know Clay Shaw personally. . . . ADDENDUM: I HAVE NEVER, EVER SAID THAT CLAY SHAW OR GUY BANISTER WERE PLOTTERS. IN FACT, I BELIEVE CLAY SHAW TO HAVE BEEN INNOCENT OF ANY SUCH DESIGNS."

103. Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy: "Judyth put her extensive training in ways of speeding tumor growth in the service of her government. Her job, which she accepted as a patriotic duty, was to culture the strongest possible strains of lung cancer for eventual transport to medical contacts in Cuba who could arrange for their injection into Castro through a seemingly 'innocuous innoculation [sic].'" "This lung cancer material would appear to kill Castro 'naturally,' as a heavy cigar smoker might be expected to develop lung cancer. This 'assassination by natural causes' would avert a possible confrontation with Russia that could ignite World War III. Judyth really believed this was a duty, considering the horrifying alternative."

The Men Who Killed Kennedy: The Love Affair, 2003 documentary, A & E Home Video: "Well, I did something I had been told not to do. I wrote a note to Dr. Ochsner and I signed it with my initials, 'J. A.,' and in it I protested the use of human beings at this stage in the project under the grounds that these were unwitting volunteers. They were not aware that they were going to be injected with live cancer cells and the goal was to kill them with it. And of course they weren't going to be volunteering for that!" Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 16, 2004: "'Plots to inject Castro with cancer!'--your lack of medical knowledge is showing, Dave--not to mention your lack of knowledge of her account. The plan was to induce cancer by a COMBINATION of things--not 'inject cancer.' The HIV bit does you even less credit." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 14, 2004: ". . . [Y]ou seem to conveniently forget that I've been in close contact with [Judyth] since May of 1999, and I KNOW what she did and didn't say over this period of years--I don't need to run to her to ask these things?"

104. Judyth Vary Baker, alt.conspiracy.jfk post, January 6, 2002 (2:46 PM): "The idea was to make it APPEAR that Castro had lung cancer. This would be the diagnosis, based on finding live lung cancer cells free-floating in his bloodstream, or newly attached in his lungs. The goal was that Castro's immune system would be severely compromised to allow the survival of such cancer cells. . . . Once castro [sic] had 'cancer' he could be 'treated' for it -- in a manner that would destroy his immune system and cause a seemingly 'natural' death." Judyth Vary Baker, alt.conspiracy.jfk post, January 6, 2002 (6:13 PM): "But to help you along, sir, 'cancer' only had to be suspected in the patient to bring in the truly lethal phase of the plan." Judyth Vary Baker, message posted to alt.assassination.jfk by Howard Platzman, January 13, 2002: "Of course, we knew that a virus would have to be added to the serum to knock out the immune system, and then the cancer could survive, at least long enough to create the impression of lung cancer....it did not matter what actually killed Castro, just so it looked like cancer, or a side effect, such as pneumonia, in the debilitated victim." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "The plan was to inject Castro with deadly cancer cells so it would APPEAR he died a natural death from cancer. Of course it would be described as a 'natural' death, as even today, uninformed people do not believe that death from cancer can be caused by specialized cancer injections."

105. The Men Who Killed Kennedy: The Love Affair, 2003 documentary, A & E Home Video: "I convinced Dr. Ochsner and others that the real thing we need to do is pull down Castro's immune system by using several ploys, and then when the cancer's introduced into his body, it would be found in his blood system. They'd put him in front of the X-ray again and again and again. He'd be injected again and again. Supposedly he'd be getting treatments to kill the cancer, when actually his immune system is getting destroyed. That could be done, in other words, Castro could be eliminated by using the X-ray and they'll think that it's the side effects from lung cancer. And that was my idea." "'Plots to inject Castro with cancer!'--your lack of medical knowledge is showing, Dave--not to mention your lack of knowledge of her account. The plan was to induce cancer by a COMBINATION of things--not 'inject cancer.' The HIV bit does you even less credit." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 14, 2004: ". . . [Y]ou seem to conveniently forget that I've been in close contact with [Judyth] since May of 1999, and I KNOW what she did and didn't say over this period of years--I don't need to run to her to ask these things?" Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "Over-simplified, but basically, this [to kill Castro with a combination of cancer injections and X-ray radiation] was the plan."

106. Judyth Vary Baker, message posted to alt.conspiracy.jfk by Howard Platzman, November 15, 2003: "CASTRO'S IMMUNE SYSTEM WOULD BE DESTROYED WHEN HE RECEIVED OVERDOSES OF RADIATION AND CHEMOTHERAPY BECAUSE 'CANCER' WOULD BE DETECTED IN CASTRO'S BLOODSTREAM FROM THE INJECTION OF LIVE CANCER CELLS. EVENTUALLY THE CANCER CELLS WOULD 'TAKE' BECAUSE OF THE DAMAGE TO CASTRO'S IMMUNE SYSTEM. EVEN THIS EXPLANATION IS INADEQUATE."

Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, April 24, 2004: "[T]he bioweapon is not well-described by my detractors. It MUST be accompanied by radiation and/or chemotherapy to be useful - and those adjunct forces could be manipulated. For example, I have a newspaper article stating Jack Ruby was placed in front of x-rays for forty-five minutes. Do you know what that kind of potential exposure would do to YOUR immune system? It was destruction of the immune system that wpuld [sic] allow strengthened cancer cells to survive and reproduce in the victim's body. . . . Castro's doctors and compadres were close and dedicated. But LAB TECHS were not nearly so. It ios [sic] the LAB TECH who runs the X-ray machine. It is the LAB TECH who brings the vial of 'penicillin' to be injected. It is the LAB TECH who can add living cancer cells to a blood sample drawn from Fidel Castro and show that his blood is full of cancer cells running around in it. There were several lab techs upon which the project was going to rely. These techs, however, were dispersed with other medically trained people to help Cubans by the tens of thousands who were made homeless and otherwise distressed by the ravages of Hurricane Flora. Hospital labs were closed down, electrcity [sic] not available - the bioweapon would not have survived such conditions [sic], and the project was abandoned at the last moment due to the hurricane." "As for 'undetectable poisons' - you still have the problem of how to get the poison into Castro and not be suspected. But when Castro went to get his shots, such as penicillin shots to keep him safe from cholera, his DPT shots to keep him safe from diphtheria, as he was often out in the field, his tetanus shots - at such a time, or during a regular check-up when blood is drawn, the cycle could begin. Nobody checks tissue cultures being kept in a lab - they have numbers. etc. [sic] and are always being grown for one purpose or another in a good pathology lab or university lab. Remember that the CIA did reveal some pretty ridiculous plans -exploding seashells, beryllium in Castro's shoes, a wetsuit laced with deadly bacteria - even toxic cigars. Each idea meant somebody would be suspected." "But if Castro was 'discovered' to have cancer cells running around in his system, and then got a big dose of x-rays woith [sic] a machine secretly adjusted just for him--he'd get quite ill. It would be blamed on the cancer - he'd receive injections. Some would contain huige [sic] doses of virulent cancer cells. Today, AIDS sufferers, whose systems are totally unable to fight cancer, get Kaposi's sarcoma and other rare cancers. The lymphoma/lung cancer we devised was so powerful that in a compromised immune system it could kill its victim within a month, usually through side effects. Jack Ruby died within a month of his x-ray treatments, which, by the way, continued and continued. He died of complications - a blood clot. Had he had on elastic stockings, he might not have died of a blood clot in his leg."

Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "Chemotherapy might have been initiated at some point by Castro's doctors. It would do little or no good, if the fast-acting cancer 'took' as expected."

107. Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy: "The serum in which the cancer cells were placed included a virus that knocks out the immune system, thus enhancing the strength of the already powerful cancer cells. This material -- scraped from the kidney's [sic] of sick monkeys -- was, in fact, the AIDS virus."

108. Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance, alternate draft provided to Robert Vernon, posted by Vernon at alt.assassination.jfk, August 30, 2004: "The serum in which the cancer cells were placed included a virus that knocks out the immune system, thus enhancing the strength of the already powerful cancer cells. This material -- scraped from the kidney's [sic] of sick monkeys -- was, in fact, the PRECURSOR OF THE AIDS virus. Note: This material, DERIVED FROM VIRAL CONTAMINANTS FOUND in the early polio vaccine and other applications, is now the subject of an important new book on the origin of AIDS, Edward Hooper's The River." See also: "Judyth's Story," outline provided to Robert Vernon on December 23, 1999, posted by Vernon at alt.assassination.jfk, August 30, 2004: "The serum in which the cancer cells were placed included a virus that knocks out the immune system, thus enhancing the strength of the cancer cells. This material -- from the kidney's [sic] of sick monkeys -- is now the subject of a new book on the origin of AIDS." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "Read the book. The matter is too complex to be explained by Mr. Reitzes, who is relying on a portion of an incomplete summary of the process written by somebody else." Judyth also discussed this matter in an email to Howard Platzman, Martin Shackelford, and eleven other recipients, July 25, 2000: "In reality, Dr. Sherman and other Ochsner-sponsored associates such as myself had found the precursor to AIDS. SV-40 and other viruses had been altered, probably using a linear accelerator (location unknown) in order to produce a virus that was to be used to knock out the immune system-- the true precursor of today's AIDS."

109. Rene Zwaap, "An American Hero," De Groene Amsterdammer, June 21, 2003 (based on an interview with Judyth Vary Baker), automated translation, posted by John McAdams to alt.assassination.jfk, July 8. 2003: "[Oswald] got a hurry course over it go around with the transport of living cancer cells, that in a special chemical liquid living could become hold. By that technique was worked with SV-40, material that were pulled from the kidneys [of monkeys], that also became uses by the development of the polio vaccine. The target of the operation was Castro with it to infect. He stood known as a lover of cigars and nobody will it thus strangely of look up as he lung cancer would get." Howard Platzman, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 31, 2003: "The outline is meant as a catch-all. It has had errors in it before and it probably has errors in it now. . . . Anyway, the medical stuff is not that easy to understand and I got parts of it wrong myself, so please tread with caution. SV-40 is not HIV, but they are related. Initially, I thought they were the same. Both attack the immune system and both jumped species from monkey to man."

110. Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Mary Ferrell and others, September 25, 2000: ". . . I know what really happened at Clinton and Jackson. I was there."

111. Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to John McAdams, posted by McAdams to alt.assassination.jfk, September 12, 2004: "John, I wasn't present on the trip to Clinton. You know so little of the REAL story it's laughable." See also Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy: "Judyth's work took longer than expected, and was, to her horror, tested on at least one human guinea pig -- the real reason for the mysterious trip to Clinton, probably on August 23, by Shaw, Ferrie, and Oswald."

Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "Lee Oswald and I together made a trip to and from Jackson and its nearby mental hospital within 72 hours AFTER Lee's trip to Clinton and then to Jackson's mental hospital in the company of Dave Ferrie, Clay Shaw, and a hospital aide. These were two distinct trips. Indeed, people have tried to conflate these two distinct trips into one, thereby providing 'arguments' that the testimonies of witnesses who saw Lee Oswald with a woman in an old, battered car AND the testimonies of groups of witnesses who saw Lee Oswald with Shaw and Dave Ferrie in a black Cadillac could not BOTH be correct. In fact, two distinct and separate trips WERE involved, and there is No conflict when all facts are accounted for. The errors in people's heads came via trying to make a single, three-day trip, a situation in which the highly busy Clay Shaw could not, of course, have participated. However, Shaw was able to take off part of ONE day. Please read my book for more information. [Note: Judyth acknowledged in an Internet forum post of September 27, 2004, that despite five years of trying, she has been unable to find a publisher for her book.] . . . Lee told me what happened during the trip to Clinton and from there to Jackson's mental hospital."

112. Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy: "Judyth's work took longer than expected, and was, to her horror, tested on at least one human guinea pig -- the real reason for the mysterious trip to Clinton, probably on August 23, by Shaw, Ferrie, and Oswald." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "This was my first estimated date, when asked to give a reasonable date-- and at first I just guessed. But there were problems with it, mainly because I remembered leaving very soon after that date for Florida, and August 23rd was simply too early to be the correct date. We are talking about a date from thirty-five years earlier that I was trying to recall. When I finally looked at various records in my possession, which I reviewed with Dr. Platzman, Irealized [sic] the date had to be at least a week later. When I finally looked up the date of the march on Washington, I then knew I was about a week off in my original estimated date. . . . When first trying to remember the date, I was trying to rely on letters and checks in my possession. The date was right after Martin Luther King's famous march, but I had forgotten the date of the march. Once I got that date, I was able to correct the earlier estimated date."

113. Black Op Radio, Episode 171, May 13, 2004, Part 1: "Uh, the very day that, uh, Lee Oswald, Clay Shaw, and David Ferrie went up to Clinton, for example, that was the same day that Martin Luther King had his massive, uh, I think it was the 29th of August, his massive rally in Washington. This is one reason Lee stood in line. He was the only white person standing in line. He wanted to make a point." Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Dave Reitzes, October 12, 2000: "It was a summer that really made us [Judyth and Oswald] want to go marching with MLK into Washington, but we were stuck in N.O. One reason, as you'll find out later, what was going on in Clinton."

114. "Judyth's Story," outline provided to Robert Vernon on December 23, 1999, posted by Vernon at alt.assassination.jfk, August 30, 2004: "The material had been tested on a human guinea pig -- the real reason for the trip to Clinton."

115. Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy: "Judyth's work took longer than expected, and was, to her horror, tested on at least one human guinea pig -- the real reason for the mysterious trip to Clinton, probably on August 23, by Shaw, Ferrie, and Oswald."

116. The Men Who Killed Kennedy: The Love Affair, 2003 documentary, A & E Home Video: "Well, I did something I had been told not to do. I wrote a note to Dr. Ochsner and I signed it with my initials, 'J. A.,' and in it I protested the use of human beings at this stage in the project under the grounds that these were unwitting volunteers. They were not aware that they were going to be injected with live cancer cells and the goal was to kill them with it."

117. The Men Who Killed Kennedy: The Love Affair, 2003 documentary, A & E Home Video: The injections and X-ray treatments at Jackson were performed on a "convoy" of "prisoners" from Angola Penitentiary. Judyth Vary Baker, JFKresearch.com post, November 2, 2002: "Lee had to wait and wait until the materials were proven to be lethal in experiments done with 'volunteers' at Jackson [sic]. . . . [B]y the second week of August, when primates were being tested prior to testing in human 'volunteers' at Jackson, we went through monkeys by the dozen."

118. Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "The wait in Clinton was for a telephone call, not for a prisoner. The statement should read "Lee Oswald, Dave Ferrie, Clay Shaw, and a hospital employee were in Clinton, Louisiana, awaiting a telephone call. The call would inform them when and where to join a convoy bringing (supposedly) one prisoner with terminal cancer or other terminal illness from Angola Prison to the mental hospital in Jackson, there to serve as a witting, not unwitting, 'guinea pig' for deadly injections. . . . Ultimately, the number of prisoners actually used was unknown to us. We suspected more than one prisoner was involved because of the size of the convoy and the delay that occurred necessitating the long wait in Clinton. . . . Originally, we were told that only one prisoner with a terminal cancer or other terminal illness would be used as a witting volunteer."

119. Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, December 15, 2001: "Judyth didn't 'actively participate in the murder of innocent mental patients.' I don't know where you got this idea, but it's ridiculous. She learned AFTER THE FACT that a patient had died after something was administered to the patient without her knowledge." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 14, 2004: ". . . [Y]ou seem to conveniently forget that I've been in close contact with [Judyth] since May of 1999, and I KNOW what she did and didn't say over this period of years--I don't need to run to her to ask these things?" Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "Originally, we were told that only one prisoner with a terminal cancer or other terminal illness would be used as a witting volunteer."

120. Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy: "Lee and Judyth were heartsick over the plan to treat a prisoner/mental patient, but were powerless to stop it. Several days after the first trip, Lee took Judyth to the hospital to see the test subject. Shaw OK'd it, as he wanted her professional assessment of the patient's condition." "Judyth checked on the bloodwork to see if the serum 'took.' If the bloodwork was not conclusive, an immediate blood sample could have been drawn and checked while she was still there. As it turned out, radical changes began quickly. The man she saw (there may have been more than one) was Cuban, white, about Castro's age and physique." Judyth Vary Baker, JFKresearch.com post, November 2, 2002: "Lee had to wait and wait until the materials were proven to be lethal in experiments done with 'volunteers' at Jackson [sic]. . . . [B]y the second week of August, when primates were being tested prior to testing in human 'volunteers' at Jackson, we went through monkeys by the dozen."

Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "Originally, we were told that only one prisoner with a terminal cancer or other terminal illness would be used as a witting volunteer. . . . We learned, too late, that one or more prisoners being used for the testing were, in fact, not suffering from terminal cancer or another terminal disease, but, instead, had good health. This was sickening to us. I did write an objection, which caused Ochsner to cut me off from any further association with him for the rest of our lives. It also made it impossible for me to use him or any of his associates, who had been my supporters, as references. This meant the end of my plans for medical school."

121. Black Op Radio, Episode 171, May 13, 2004, Part 2: "Now, Lee Oswald did something very interesting. He put on his Mexican tourist visa application, okay, before going into Mexico City, uh, that he was a Catholic. This is at a time when Castro was casting out Catholic priests and Catholics right and left. I mean it was the last thing that you would want to put on an application form if you intended go to Cuba. He never intended to go to Cuba. Uh, it was only a last minute uh, uh, last ditch attempt when, when he couldn't get his contacts to come through, that that occurred. He did go to Mexico City to deliver the, um, biological weapon but Hurricane Flora came through. Now, the reason I am talking about his doing that as Catholic. I was a Catholic girl, as I have already said. And, we'd planned to get, uh, quickie divorces from a corrupt priest and, uh, go ahead and get married as Catholics. And that was our plan."

Judyth Vary Baker, defunct website at Switchboard.com: "Another record, Warren Commission Exhibit #2481, shows that Lee Oswald, on his Mexican tourist application, put down that he was a Catholic. He did this so we could more easily divorce and marry if we could meet in Mexico. I was raised Catholic, but Lee was not. In fact, Lee was an atheist who had never, before meeting me, placed any religiuos [sic] denomination on any form, to my knowledge. Lee did this even though, at the time, Fidel Castro was persecuting nuns and priests in Cuba. It did not help his 'chances' to get into Cuba, to place 'Catholic' on that application form." Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail forwarded to Dave Reitzes, December 16, 2003: "[N]ote: Lee Oswald put 'Catholic' on his Mexican tourist application. [N]ote: Fidel Castro was kicking out Cubans who were priests and nuns and top Catholics because they were part of the old guard....it was to his DISADVANTAGE to put that there...he did so because it was to his ADVANTAGE to divorce and marry ME quickly (I was a Catholic) under the corrupt system in Mexico....he was an atheist who had NEVER previosly [sic] put ANY religon [sic] on any document. Now, in late September [sic], he does so."

Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "This was the true reason for Lee Oswald's decision to begin placing 'Catholic' on documents that would be viewed in Mexico, something he had never done before. In fact, Lee Oswald was an atheist or, more correctly, a strong agnostic."

122. Judyth Vary Baker (electlady@my-Deja.com), alt.conspiracy.jfk post, May 12, 1999: "Note that on the request for VISA while in Mexico City, Oswald put 'Catholic' instead of 'Lutheran' as his religion. Why do you think he did this?" ["Because he was raised Roman Catholic?" a poster suggested.] Judyth Vary Baker (electlady@my-Deja.com), alt.conspiracy.jfk post, July 1, 1999: "Sorry I'm so busy. No, Lee was raised Lutheran, and at this time in his life, he didn;t [sic] believe in God, but on the application he put 'Catholic' because toput [sic] 'atheist' would have looked commie-suspicious. Because he knew both me and david [sic] ferrie [sic], and because his cousins were catholic [sic], Lee began using 'Catholic' rather than 'Lutheran' or 'none.' Simple as that." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "This was the reason Lee Oswald was prepared to give in case the question was raised by his handlers or others. Of course he wouldn't tell an outsider that he planned on marrying in Mexico."

123. Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy: "The three [Judyth, Oswald, and David Ferrie] understood, as early as the third week of August, that Lee's Russia and his activities in New Orleans made him the perfect patsy." "Fearing he was a dead man if he tried to break with the conspirators at this point, he [Oswald] would join them, walking with eyes wide open into the patsy role." Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "YES, BUT I WOULD NOT HAVE WRITTEN IT QUITE THAT WAY." "The outline, once again, was only half written when it was hijacked, to be shown in its half-finished state to selected persons known to publicly come against me -- without my permission. The person who holds these files promised she would 'go to the grave' before revealing them to anyone, in their unfinished state (including typos, and insertions by others, that, in some cases, I have never seen or approved)." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "Lee Oswald knew in advance about the assassination plans because he had already successfully infiltrated the ring. He was aware of the danger, and knew that by continuing on his course, he might forfeit his life. He also believed he was already in too deep to back out, but he continued to make contingency plans for escape, if possible."

124. Judyth Vary Baker, post to JFKresearch.com, December 31, 2002: ". . . [Oswald] knew he was being ste [sic] up but thought he would be killed. I do not think he thought he'd be made a patsy, and, as he thought he would be killed, and I don't think he thought he'd be proclaimed as the killer...this element may have shocked him." Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "YES, THIS IS MORE THE WAY IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN WRITTEN. I AM NOT CERTAIN WHEN LEE REALIZED HE MIGHT BE SET UP INTO A PATSY ROLE. THAT HE WAS BEING MIS-USED AND WAS IN DANGER, THAT WAS APPARENT FOR A LONG TIME." Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance, alternate draft provided to Robert Vernon, posted by Vernon at alt.assassination.jfk, August 30, 2004: "When Lee was questioned by Dallas police after his capture, and his visit to Mexico City was brought up, I read that this was the only time Lee lost his composure. . . . Nevertheless, to know that he had been so thoroughly betrayed--that his presence in Mexico City was allowed to be known, when it could all come back on everybody's heads--even Dr. Ochsner's--this had to be a shocker for Lee, and he must have known then how expendable he really was."

Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "Lee did not think he would escape alive. He was uncertain if he was slated to be a patsy or was just one of several potential patsies. In fact, he was uncertain as to the actual location of the planned hit on Kennedy. He believed that several possible locations had been pre-selected. He personally believed the hit would probably be at the Trade Mart, but he also described several other possible locations. He did believe Kennedy would be killed either in Dallas or at LBJ's private airstrip."

125. The Men Who Killed Kennedy: The Love Affair, 2003 documentary, A & E Home Video: "Well, I did something I had been told not to do. I wrote a note to Dr. Ochsner and I signed it with my initials, 'J. A.,' and in it I protested the use of human beings at this stage in the project under the grounds that these were unwitting volunteers. They were not aware that they were going to be injected with live cancer cells and the goal was to kill them with it. And of course they weren't going to be volunteering for that! So I did object. And Ochsner called me on the phone, and he was furious, and said I never should have written anything that was linked to me by any kind of paper or handwriting or anything. If I had any objections I should have told him in person. And he said at that time that both Lee and I were expendable. And then he slammed the phone down. By expendable, he meant -- it was very clear to me and Lee both -- that they could get rid of us at any time if we were going to cause problems, because this was a project that was much, much bigger than any little Lee Oswald or any little Judy Baker." Judyth Vary Baker, JFKresearch.com post, November 14, 2002: "As for my stating we knew about the get-castro [sic] plot as it turned into get-Kennedy, this is what came down the grapevine, along with a lot of other rumors, but we believed it because of the changes that suddenly occurred, even some threats that we were expendable in August."

126. Judyth Vary Baker, e-mails to unknown recipients, date unknown, posted to alt.conspiracy.jfk by Ihateliars1@yahoo.com, November 8, 2001: "Lee knew that Marina needed psychological preparation for his trip to Mexico City. She was pregnant and the Paine pains could watch over her. And then, he might have been required to go in into Cuba. . . . That isn't how it worked out. He came back very down, knowing he was slated for betrayel [sic]. . . . Lee knew at once when left holding the bag that he was going to be set up. You don't treat somebody like this unless they are dispensable. He knew."

127. "Before the Silence Came: Lee's Last Telephone Calls," draft chapter from Judyth's manuscript, posted by Robert Vernon at alt.assassination.jfk, August 30, 2004: "When Lee was questioned by Dallas police after his capture, and his visit to Mexico City was brought up, I read that this was the only time Lee lost his composure. He respn [sic] there, of course. Nevertheless, to know that he had been so thoroughly betrayed--that his presence in Mexico City was allowed to be known, when it could all come back on everybody's heads--even Dr. Ochsner's--this had to be a shocker for Lee, and he must have known then how expendable he really was."

128. Judyth Vary Baker, "Before the Silence Came: Lee's Last Telephone Calls," circulated draft of chapter for Deadly Alliance:

 

Because time was so short now, Lee told me there wouldn't be another call from him unless he reached Laredo.

"Lee," I said slowly, "you didn't say until. You said 'unless.'"

"I apologize," he answered. I heard him suck up his breath. We were both very close to tears.

Outside, it was sunset.

"You'll go to Cancun," Lee said. "You'll stay in a fine hotel. I'll be there . . ."

 

Judyth also told at least two researchers that she had planned to meet Oswald in Cancun: David Lifton and Mary Ferrell. David Lifton, alt.conspiracy.jfk post, December 12, 2000 (9:08 PM GMT): "When I spoke with Judyth on March 4, 2000, she told me about Lee's instruction to her in their last phone call to rendezvous with him on Cancun." Mary Ferrell, e-mail to John McAdams and others, posted by McAdams with Ferrell's permission to alt.assassination.jfk, December 12, 2001: "When talking about Alexander Rorke, she [Judyth] said she was to meet Lee and Rorke in Cancun, Mexico, following the assassination."

129. Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, September 27, 2004: ". . . I NEVER said I would meet Lee at Cancun and we would stay in a fine hotel." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "I NEVER said that Lee and I planned to meet in a fine hotel in Cancun, and then get married. I have repeatedly corrected such mis-statements [sic] for several years now. Anyone who continues to say I said such a thing is in error." Lifton posted about Judyth and the "fine hotel" in Cancun at alt.assassination.jfk on December 12, 2000. Howard Platzman immediately sent Lifton an e-mail stating, in part: "Mr. Lifton: On advice of counsel, Judyth and I hereby inform you that the next step in your crusade against us is an easily winnable slander case. We have no intention of responding to the misrepresentations and calumnies in your newsgroup posts and unwelcome private e-mails. You can rest assured that there will be no further responses to your private e-mails. If you persist in maligning either Judyth or me, whether in private e-mails or the newsgroups, you will face the prospect of actually having to earn a living rather than relying upon the royalties of a discredited book."

Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, December 14, 2000 (6:30 AM GMT): "Lifton mixed the Cancun and 'fine hotel' references. They are not related in the manuscript. You can trust Lifton to mislead you." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, December 14, 2000 (10:43 PM GMT) (responding to John McAdams): "Lifton was 'right' in that the error occurred in the old copy of the chapter that was read to him, but wrong in that there was any connection between Cancun and the hotel matter. If Lifton used these research techniques on any other issue, you'd be roasting him alive, John."

130. Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, September 27, 2004: "For example, I NEVER said I would meet Lee at Cancun and we would stay in a fine hotel." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, September 5, 2004: "'[F]ine hotel in Cancun" appears nowhere in the manuscript--only in McAdams' posts. The two phrases are in separate sentences in the manuscript. There were fine hotels in the general area, and Cancun was also in the general area. Lifton and McAdams chose to blend the two, to make Judyth look less credible. It was an attempt to mislead." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, September 26, 2004: "No one but McAdams, Barb, has ever talked about 'a fine hotel in Cancun.' Even in the flawed draft he keeps citing, the two phrases are SEPARATE."

131. Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, September 27, 2004: "For example, I never wrote the phrase 'fine hotel in Cancun.' Never! But it is constantly quoted by the man who fabricated that phrase (Dave Reitzes). . . . I NEVER said I would meet Lee at Cancun and we would stay in a fine hotel."

132. Howard Platzman, alt.assassination.jfk post, December 14, 2000: "David Lifton is correct. One draft of a chapter of the book does mention a 'fine hotel' in Cancun. For the record . . . this was my mistake and mine alone." Judyth Vary Baker, quoted in an alt.conspiracy.jfk post of Howard Platzman, November 15, 2003: "[The circulated draft chapter containing the dialogue about Cancun] WAS WRITTEN FOR JUDYTH AFTER CONVERSATIONS AND E-MAILS BETWEEN HER AND DR. HOWARD PLATZMAN, JUDYTH'S CO-AUTHOR. PLATZMAN WROTE SOME OF THE FINAL MATERIALS BECAUSE THEY WERE SO UPSETTING TO JUDYTH CONCERNING LEE OSWALD'S LAST WORDS TO HER, AND HIS DEATH SCENES. JUDYTH RECEIVED THESE CHAPTERS AND HAD BEEN IN THE PROCESS OF CORRECTING THIS MANUSCRIPT WHEN IT WAS SECRETLY COPIED. IN FACT, JUDYTH HAD NOT EVEN READ ALL OF THIS CHAPTER IN JANUARY 2000 TO CORRECT IT. PLATZMAN WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT THE FINAL CONVERSATION BETWEEN THEM, BASED ON EMAILS, TELEPHONE CONVERSATIONS, AND JUDYTH'S FIRST MANUSCRIPT. HOWEVER, THERE REMAINED IMPORTANT CORRECTIONS TO BE MADE . . ."

Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, September 5, 2004: "There's no confusion about it for anyone who has been paying attention. The agent [Peter Cox] added 'Cancun' to the account, Howard Platzman put some things in dialogue form to encourage Judyth to recall what she could, and he erroneously left in the 'Cancun' reference from the agent's version. This was eventually corrected, but not before some uncorrected copies were leaked to the attack group." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, September 24, 2004: "As I've noted many times before, William, SHE DIDN'T WRITE IT--there were NO QUOTES in what she wrote. Her agent and Howard both put some things into quotes, to encourage her to try to remember more of what was said. At that point, she had written no quotes herself." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, September 25, 2004: "The agent took the Cancun reference seriously--having been given it as a geographic locator. He and Howard were both encouraging Judyth to try and remember what she and Lee said to each other and how they said it. As a result, either the agent or Howard took material from the agent's manuscript and created the quote which has been the subject of so much silly fussing."

Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "The Cancun matter was an insertion by my literary agent that was missed by Dr.Platzman [sic]. He took the blame for allowing it to remain in the manuscript. But it was my fault, too. A section of dialogue that I wrote, and take responsibility for, includes several phrases that I do not, however, remember writing as they are now shown on the internet [sic]. Lee indeed said we would meet in a fine hotel, but his tone of voice was so full of irony I didn't know if he was joking. He never said we would meet in Cancun. Typos and errors will happen. That we would meet in an area NEAR present-day Cancun is what was always meant, and if I typed Cancun instead, God forgive me, as Reitzes won't, even though that section was clearly described as still in the process of being edited when it was sent [to] a very few for comments."

However, Judyth had sent this draft chapter to a number of researchers, including Debra Conway, without any indication whatsoever that she was not the author. I have asked Judyth and Martin Shackelford numerous times at alt.assassination.jfk what possible reason Judyth could have had in circulating an error-ridden manuscript authored by someone other than herself. Judyth has never responded, and Shackelford explicitly refuses to answer the question; see for example his post of October 7, 2004: "Demanding that I explain what was in people's minds when they sent out the outline is ridiculous. You make the same ridiculous demand regarding the partly corrected chapter outline. There will be nothing further on either."

Moreover, as John McAdams has noted in his valuable essay on Judyth, the manuscript itself contains indications that Judyth was the author, and Judyth herself sent it to Howard Platzman and others, attaching it to an e-mail that begins:

 

Dear Howard and all:

I am resending the "end of line" realizing it isn't quite finished - it doesn't have a goodbye, for example, from Lee, no hang-up - I really couldn't go there.

 

McAdams has posted the draft chapter in full, exactly as it was sent out by Judyth.

See also Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, December 14, 2000: "You make a mountain out of a molehill--the area they were talking about is now called Cancun. Clearly an error to call it by it's [sic] present name, but hardly fatal." "Howard Platzman didn't write the dialogue, Judyth did." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 14, 2004: ". . . [Y]ou seem to conveniently forget that I've been in close contact with [Judyth] since May of 1999, and I KNOW what she did and didn't say over this period of years--I don't need to run to her to ask these things?"

129. Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, December 14, 2000:

 

You make a mountain out of a molehill--the area they were talking about is now called Cancun. Clearly an error to call it by it's present name, but hardly fatal.

Howard Platzman didn't write the dialogue, Judyth did.

 

134. Judyth Vary Baker, JFKresearch post. November 15, 2002: "The 'Cancun' thing has been explained in full...my former literary agent [Peter Cox] added things to the manuscript [sic], this wasn't, got repeated somewhere, I have tried to stay out of that forum over there because I tried to post answers and they would only post a part of it, or they would not even get posted at all. I have answered in full, over at the other forum, but all my replied [sic] were ignored. In short, a place on the map was pointed out to me, today bewteeen [sic] cancun [sic] and belize [sic], I named the area for my agent, the agent put it in the book." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, September 5, 2004: "There's no confusion about it for anyone who has been paying attention. The agent [Peter Cox] added 'Cancun' to the account, Howard Platzman put some things in dialogue form to encourage Judyth to recall what she could, and he erroneously left in the 'Cancun' reference from the agent's version. This was eventually corrected, but not before some uncorrected copies were leaked to the attack group."

Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, September 24, 2004: "As I've noted many times before, William, SHE DIDN'T WRITE IT--there were NO QUOTES in what she wrote. Her agent and Howard both put some things into quotes, to encourage her to try to remember more of what was said. At that point, she had written no quotes herself." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, September 25, 2004: "The agent took the Cancun reference seriously--having been given it as a geographic locator. He and Howard were both encouraging Judyth to try and remember what she and Lee said to each other and how they said it. As a result, either the agent or Howard took material from the agent's manuscript and created the quote which has been the subject of so much silly fussing."

Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "This [that Peter Cox wrote the disputed material] is correct." "The Cancun matter was an insertion by my literary agent that was missed by Dr.Platzman [sic]. He took the blame for allowing it to remain in the manuscript. But it was my fault, too. A section of dialogue that I wrote, and take responsibility for, includes several phrases that I do not, however, remember writing as they are now shown on the internet [sic]. Lee indeed said we would meet in a fine hotel, but his tone of voice was so full of irony I didn't know if he was joking. He never said we would meet in Cancun. Typos and errors will happen. That we would meet in an area NEAR present-day Cancun is what was always meant, and if I typed Cancun instead, God forgive me, as Reitzes won't, even though that section was clearly described as still in the process of being edited when it was sent [to] a very few for comments."

However, Judyth had sent this draft chapter to a number of researchers, including Debra Conway, without any indication whatsoever that she was not the author. I have asked Judyth and Martin Shackelford numerous times at alt.assassination.jfk what possible reason Judyth could have had in circulating an error-ridden manuscript authored by someone other than herself. Judyth has never responded, and Shackelford explicitly refuses to answer the question; see for example his post of October 7, 2004: "Demanding that I explain what was in people's minds when they sent out the outline is ridiculous. You make the same ridiculous demand regarding the partly corrected chapter outline. There will be nothing further on either."

Moreover, as John McAdams has noted in his valuable essay on Judyth, the manuscript itself contains indications that Judyth was the author, and Judyth herself sent it to Howard Platzman and others, attaching it to an e-mail that begins:

 

Dear Howard and all:

I am resending the "end of line" realizing it isn't quite finished - it doesn't have a goodbye, for example, from Lee, no hang-up - I really couldn't go there.

 

McAdams has posted the draft chapter in full, exactly as it was sent out by Judyth.

See also Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, December 14, 2000: "You make a mountain out of a molehill--the area they were talking about is now called Cancun. Clearly an error to call it by it's [sic] present name, but hardly fatal." "Howard Platzman didn't write the dialogue, Judyth did." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 14, 2004: ". . . [Y]ou seem to conveniently forget that I've been in close contact with [Judyth] since May of 1999, and I KNOW what she did and didn't say over this period of years--I don't need to run to her to ask these things?"

135. Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, February 15, 2005:

 

After some checking of details, I wish to correct a recent post which contained inaccurate information relating to one of Judyth's former agents, Peter Cox.

Mr. Cox has indicated to me that he in no way misrepresented matters to Judyth, thus it would be incorrect say she was "snookered" by him. He has also indicated that he did not "rewrite" her manuscript. As I am unable to get specifics on this claim, I retract it as well.

Howard mentioned Mr. Cox's reference to "co-author credit," but my comments beyond that were speculative only, and I retract them.

Judyth's firing of him, therefore, was not due to his re-writing the manuscript, as that didn't occur, and therefore there was no "agent's messed-up version."

Due to the confusion relating to these matters, I won't discuss them further on the newsgroup, so followup questions will be pointless.

Martin

 

136. Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, May 24, 2008.

137. Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, May 29, 2008.

138. Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, June 4, 2008: ". . . [I]t was a draft by Judyth. That much hasn't been at issue." This is in reference to Judyth Vary Baker, "Before the Silence Came: Lee's Last Telephone Calls," a circulated draft of a chapter for Deadly Alliance:

 

Because time was so short now, Lee told me there wouldn't be another call from him unless he reached Laredo.

"Lee," I said slowly, "you didn't say until. You said 'unless.'"

"I apologize," he answered. I heard him suck up his breath. We were both very close to tears.

Outside, it was sunset.

"You'll go to Cancun," Lee said. "You'll stay in a fine hotel. I'll be there . . ."

 

Judyth also told at least two researchers that she had planned to meet Oswald in Cancun: David Lifton and Mary Ferrell. David Lifton, alt.conspiracy.jfk post, December 12, 2000 (9:08 PM GMT): "When I spoke with Judyth on March 4, 2000, she told me about Lee's instruction to her in their last phone call to rendezvous with him on Cancun." Mary Ferrell, e-mail to John McAdams and others, posted by McAdams with Ferrell's permission to alt.assassination.jfk, December 12, 2001: "When talking about Alexander Rorke, she [Judyth] said she was to meet Lee and Rorke in Cancun, Mexico, following the assassination."

139. Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "The Cancun matter was an insertion by my literary agent that was missed by Dr.Platzman [sic]. He took the blame for allowing it to remain in the manuscript. But it was my fault, too. A section of dialogue that I wrote, and take responsibility for, includes several phrases that I do not, however, remember writing as they are now shown on the internet [sic]. Lee indeed said we would meet in a fine hotel, but his tone of voice was so full of irony I didn't know if he was joking. He never said we would meet in Cancun. Typos and errors will happen. That we would meet in an area NEAR present-day Cancun is what was always meant, and if I typed Cancun instead, God forgive me, as Reitzes won't, even though that section was clearly described as still in the process of being edited when it was sent [to] a very few for comments."

140. Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, December 13, 2000: "I have chapters of the manuscript, not the whole thing together in one place." "I learned today that there is a reference to Cancun. I also learned that they [Judyth and Oswald] planned to go briefly to that area, and she used the current name in referring to it. Her interest was in a nearby Mayan site. The village was apparently then known as Kankun." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, September 24, 2004: "This is getting sillier all the time. They [Cancun and other locations named by Judyth] are all geographical indicators of the same general area." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, September 27, 2004: "Cancun, however, was never more than a quick reference to the general geographical area, figuring that it was the name most people would recognize. It has NOTHING AT ALL TO DO with the resort being there in 1963--they weren't planning on going to a resort. They were planning to go to the Yucatan and look at the ruins. 'Cancun' wasn't supposed to refer specifically to the ruins either--just the area."

Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, September 27, 2004 (11:31 PM): "'Cancun' was shorthand for the general geographical area. She was quoting Oswald when she said 'fine hotel,' but neither of them took the phrase seriously, due to his joking comments about the 'fine hotels' he had stayed at in Moscow." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, August 14, 2004: ". . . [Y]ou seem to conveniently forget that I've been in close contact with [Judyth] since May of 1999, and I KNOW what she did and didn't say over this period of years--I don't need to run to her to ask these things?"

Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "HOW does one describe a general area on a present-day map, near Cancun, without mentioning Cancun? I was asked to point out the approximate place where Lee and I planned to meet. I had described it originally merely as in Mexico. Asked for more detail, I described it as an extremely remote and wild area. My suitcase was packed with survival equipment! I described the area where I was going as a place I'd be afraid to go to, except I knew Lee would be there. Does that sound like a pleasure resort?"

141. At a now-defunct website of her own, Judyth affirmed that she wrote the material in question, protesting only that agent Peter Cox had changed "Kankun" to "Cancun": "[M]yth: An early draft of my co-authored manuscript included information about 'a fine hotel in Cancun...' This was a misspelling of the AREA of Kankun, some distance from a city, Merida, where I assumed Lee might meet me (he might have also met me near the Kankun area, near the ruins of Chitzen [sic] Itza). In 1963 there was no resort. I never said we were going to meet at Cancun. My literary agent thought I made a typo and changed it to Cancun. Heaven knows, I make plenty of typos when I type, so I can't blame him for misunderstanding! My co-author, not realizing I had meant Kankun, let the agent's error get repeated in the second draft of the book. I was in the process of making some corrections to the manuscript (of errors such as this that had been inserted into the text) when the manuscript was secretly copied and carried away."

Judyth Vary Baker, newsgroup post, July 5, 2004: "I always said, as in the email John has so kindly posted, that I was to be flown to Mexico. . . . when asked where, I mentioned the Yucatan . . . where asked where in the Yucatan, I said Kankun, as I had learned it. . . . Everybody said I was misspelling it. My agent in 1999, told me it was Cancun and please don't misspell it anymore. I told him it was a village. He said it was now a resort, and what was the difference. . . . The actual location was not where Lee and I expected to go to a hotel, only to meet . . . we were going to then go explore Chichen Itza, which was supposed to be relatively close, and ruins, all of which we believed fromabook [sic] we read together was in Quintana Roo . . . we were going to go to a fine hotel...maybe that was a joke of Lee's...and we were going to get a Catholic priest to marry us." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "We planned to meet! The rest of this statement is a twisted version of my words, drawn out beyond reason or belief, for the sake of specious argument."

142. Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, April 29, 2008:

 

The correct phrasing may well have been: "You'll stay in a fine hotel. You'll go to Cancun." You seem to think that because the sequence was reversed in the DRAFT chapter, that is [sic] functions as EVIDENCE the hotel had to be in Cancun. Give it up.

 

143. Judyth Vary Baker, newsgroup post, July 4, 2004: "I said we were going to meet at Chichen Itza, we were going to also stay in a gine [sic] hotel which I thiought [sic] would probably be in Merida. I also wondered if it was a joke of Lee's." At a now-defunct website of her own, Judyth wrote, ". . . [W]e were going to go to a fine hotel...maybe that was a joke of Lee's . . ." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "Lee indeed said we would meet in a fine hotel, but his tone of voice was so full of irony I didn't know if he was joking. He never said we would meet in Cancun. Typos and errors will happen. That we would meet in an area NEAR present-day Cancun is what was always meant, and if I typed Cancun instead, God forgive me, as Reitzes won't, even though that section was clearly described as still in the process of being edited when it was sent [to] a very few for comments. . . . Since Lee often made wry jokes, I had no way of knowing if he was serious or not about our staying in a 'fine hotel.' It made absolutely no difference to me. Was it 'definitely' a joke? I don't know and never did."

144. Judyth Vary Baker, JFKresearch post. November 15, 2002: "The fine hotel was a long-standing joke betweeen [sic] Lee and me meaning we'd probably end up with diarrhea--it happened to him in Moscow and it happened to him in Mexico City, and it happened to him in japan [sic], too." Howard Platzman, alt.assassination.jfk post, December 14, 2000: "The 'fine hotel' reference was actually an in-joke -- black humor given their waning optimism. Lee had said he stayed at 'fine hotels' before - in Russia and Mexico City - referring in a sarcastic manner to Montezuma's revenge." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, September 27, 2004 (9:03 AM): "And, once again, the 'fine hotel' reference was a joking one, John." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, September 27, 2004 (9:08 AM): "And ignoring the fact that the 'fine hotel' reference was a joking reference in the first place, relating to the 'fine hotels' Lee had stayed at in Moscow." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, September 27, 2004 (11:31 PM): "She was quoting Oswald when she said 'fine hotel,' but neither of them took the phrase seriously, due to his joking comments about the 'fine hotels' he had stayed at in Moscow." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "Since Lee often made wry jokes, I had no way of knowing if he was serious or not about our staying in a 'fine hotel.' It made absolutely no difference to me. Was it 'definitely' a joke? I don't know and never did."

145. Judyth Vary Baker, newsgroup post, July 4, 2004: "I said we were going to meet at Chitzen [sic] Itza, we were going to also stay in a gine [sic] hotel which I thiought [sic] would probably be in Merida. I also wondered if it was a joke of Lee's." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, September 5, 2004: "There were fine hotels in the general area, and was also in the general area." Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, September 22, 2004: "The fine hotel was near the Chichen Itza ruins--where there were two."

146. Judyth Vary Baker, newsgroup post, July 4, 2004: "I said we were going to meet at Chitzen [sic] Itza, we were going to also stay in a gine [sic] hotel which I thiought [sic] would probably be in Merida. I also wondered if it was a joke of Lee's." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "We planned to meet NEAR Chichen Itza, not IN Chichen Itza."

147. The Men Who Killed Kennedy: The Love Affair, 2003 documentary, A & E Home Video: "Lee told me about a city called Merida that was down in Yucatan Peninsula, that had CIA contacts located there, and that we could find a way to meet in Merida and get married there." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "Lee never mentioned the name of this city as a meeting place. He spoke of Merida in other contexts. I decided this must have been the 'city' in the Yucatan where we hoped to marry - on my own, as he mentioned we would be flying from the city where we would marry on the Cayman islands. When, later, I learned that flights from Merida to the Cayman Islands were known to occur, I then assumed the city was Merida."

148. Judyth Vary Baker, alt.assassination.jfk post, December 30, 2001: ". . . [T]here was a plan to use Alex Rorke to take me to the Yucatan-- approxiumately [sic] where Belize is located, but easily found just by remembering the present-day locarion [sic] of cancun [sic]. though [sic] it was primitive at that time . . ." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "At one point in our plans, we planned to meet near present-day Belize. I have no idea how to describe the location without using the word Belize. Do you? I have no what the location was called in 1963. It was the first place we were interested in while making our plans. We had guessed that this was the secret site where the film NIGHT OF THE IGUANA had been made, and thought there might be some vestige of civilization remaining behind after the film had been shot. The place had been described in the newspapers as spectacularly romantic. Later, we changed the meeting place nearer to where the ruins of Chichen Itza were located."

149. Judyth Vary Baker, defunct website at Switchboard.com: "[M]yth: An early draft of my co-authored manuscript included information about 'a fine hotel in Cancun...' This was a misspelling of the AREA of Kankun, some distance from a city, Merida, where I assumed Lee might meet me (he might have also met me near the Kankun area, near the ruins of Chitzen [sic] Itza). In 1963 there was great interest renewed in Chitzen [sic] Itza, and furthermore, a film, called THE NIGHT (or was it the DAY?) OF THE IGUANA was being made in this area, and Lee and I read the descriptions of tropical lushness. George deMohrenschildt [sic] had described similar paradises to Lee, and he believed somewhere in this remote area would be a safe place to rendezvous. It was a very romantic idea, but we were in love." If Judyth and Oswald discussed traveling to the locale where Night of the Iguana was filmed, they discussed traveling to Puerto Vallarta, not Chichen Itza. Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "CORRECTION: Lee and I changed our proposed meeting place several times as the situation developed. For example, the murder of Alexander Rorke, a pilot Lee trusted, changed the proposed meeting place. Our plans were not set in stone."

150. Rene Zwaap, "An American Hero," De Groene Amsterdammer, June 21, 2003 (based on an interview with Judyth Vary Baker), automated translation, posted by John McAdams to alt.assassination.jfk, July 8. 2003: "[Oswald] and I had a plan round together from the U.S. to leave. We would go live on the Cayman Islands, where he contacts had." Howard Platzman, alt.assassination.jfk post, December 14, 2000: "[T]he Caymans were the final destination and an airfield in or near was a stopover."

151. Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "Judyth and Lee planned to both divorce and then marry - in Mexico. Exploration of ancient Mayan ruins and a visit to a large city in the Yucatan were additional possible plans. After marriage, final destination was probably going to be the Cayman Islands."

152. Judyth Vary Baker, Me & Lee: How I Came to Know, Love and Lose Lee Harvey Oswald (Walterville, Oregon: Trine Day LLC, 2010), p. 520.

153. Judyth Vary Baker, interview for Dutch media, originally broadcast in streaming audio on April 23, 2003: "Oh, I knew what was going to happen. I was working at a lab where I had been placed making special chemicals for our project in Florida and they all got chairs out to watch the assassination on TV. . . . And I saw it happen on TV, and we had worked so hard to stop that from happening."

154. Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, September 29, 2003 (responding to David Lifton): "Her co-workers in Florida 'knew the assassination was going to happen?' Not true, David. They gathered to watch the coverage--AFTERWARDS. Once again, you got it totally wrong. But perhaps you're just not a good listener, David." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "On November 22, Judyth observed her boss and several others bring in stools to watch the TV at noon. They exhibited what in her mind was undue interest, keeping the TV on past lunchtime, which was an hour ahead of Dallas time. Several chairs already in the lab were also used. Judyth didn't help set up anything. This is yet another misrepresentation. . . . The assassination itself was never televised. The events of the day of the assassination happened to have been observed on TV by Judyth and others at PenChem. Removal of a phrase can change the meaning of a sentence."

Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "WHEN I SAY I 'KNEW WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN' I MEANT NOT THAT I WAS CERTAIN THAT THE ASSASSINATION WAS GOING TO HAPPEN, BUT THAT AT LEAST AN ATTEMPT WOULD BE MADE, AND THIS WOULD BE A VERY DANGEROUS DAY FOR THE PRESIDENT, AND A DANGEROUS DAY FOR LEE. NOT THAT I KNEW WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN PRECISELY IN DEALEY PLAZA. IN FACT, LEE AND I BOTH THOUGHT THE PROBLEMS WOULD ARISE AT THE TRADE MART." "NOTE 'THEY' GOT CHAIRS OUT? NOT ME, AS REITZES ELSEWHERE CLAIMED?IT SHOULD BE STOOLS AND CHAIRS 'MOSTLY STOOLS'.THEY WATCHED TV AT LUNCH, AND THEN STAYED, TALKING ABOUT KENNEDY, IN THE LAB. THAT WAS VERY UNUSUAL. THEY EVEN STARTED A VOLLEYBALL GAME OUT IN THE REC AREA OUTSIDE. AN EARLY FRIDAY AFTERNOON, WHEN WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN WORKING, THIS WAS GOING ON. IT WAS ABSOLUTELY SCARY. AND I WAS SO HYPER, WORRIED ABOUT LEE. THEN, WHEN THE ASSASSINATION WAS ANNOUNCED, EVERYBODY CAME IN TO WATCH, AND SAT ON THOSE STOOLS, CHAIRS. AS IF THEY KNEW, AND KEPT THOSE CHAIRS AND STOOLS THERE TO WATCH. OF COURSE, I VERY MUCH DOUBT THAT WAS THE CASE. BUT IT SEEMED THAT WAY AT THE TIME [all ellipses as in original]."

155. "Before the Silence Came: Lee's Last Telephone Calls," draft chapter from Judyth's manuscript, posted by Robert Vernon at alt.assassination.jfk, August 30, 2004: "In the middle of November . . . [Oswald] wasn't getting along with Marina at all: he'd had his job a month by now, and although he had the money to get an apartment for them---in fact, he had enough saved for three months' rent from legitimate sources (Lee never used his CIA for [sic] FBI money for private matters)--of course he did not rent an apartment for him and her and their babies. He wouldn't be in Dallas more than another week, if all went well. He'd do his part to save JFK and get the hell out of there. [new paragraph] Marina would receive this saved money (about $150 plus whatever else Lee could give her) so she'd have enough to live on until George DeMohrenschildt's [sic] attorney could -- out of pity -- funnel her some more. George said he would watch over Marina, in return for use of the interest on the fund. Lee thought he was leaving his wife in good hands, and he always had hopes that, eventually, we'd be able to show up again after a few years, and possibly even adopt Lee's children if Marina didn't want their burden." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "George DeMohrenschildt [sic] was asked by Lee to help Marina and his children in case something happened to him."

156. Howard Platzman, e-mail to Dave Reitzes, October 21, 2003: "Judyth has mentioned DeM [sic] - what Lee told her, of course, she never met him. . . . She has never said a word that would tie DeM [sic] to the assassination . . ." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "I have only guessed at the extent of George's knowledge, since Lee said he had confided in him; I was asked my opinion and gave it."

157. Judyth Vary Baker, response to email from Howard Platzman, September 12, 1999, posted to deepsecrets newsgroup by Shadow-It, September 26, 2006: "So I don't know who was the other member--or members--of the 'abort team' as it was called."

158. Judyth Vary Baker, e-mail to Nancy Eldreth, June 6, 2004: "Plumlee's stuff needs to be taken seriously.Lee [sic] knew him. Plumlee was part of the abort team Lee was on to try to save JFK."

159. Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "After the assassination, Dave Ferrie told me Plumlee was involved in what he termed an 'abort team.'"

160. Martin Shackelford, alt.assassination.jfk post, October 16, 2004 (responding to John McAdams): "She stated it [Oswald and Plumlee being part of an "abort team"] as speculation, John, not as fact." Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "After the assassination, Dave Ferrie told me Plumlee was involved in what he termed an 'abort team.' I had NEVER read Plumlee's testimony and did not know of its existence. Had it been published by 1999? . . . I am not as certain, but believe that Lee also, not long before the assassination, did use the same term, 'abort team.' He did indicate that he was NOT alone, and was being helped. . . . I reported that Lee was on an 'abort'team [sic], in 1999, and later was told that Plumlee described an 'abort team'---I do not remember it being said he was part of the team, but only that he described the team...[ellipsis as in original] and being aware of that, I then concluded they were on the same team. It seemed to be a reasonable conclusion, but of course, Plumlee knows his exact and precise involvement, whereas I must simply guess from the fragments of which I was aware, as a witness.

"Question: Were Lee and Plumlee aware of each other's missions, even if they were used for the same purpose? Would it be necessary for Plumlee to know about Lee, except on a need to know basis?" "Of course not." "I have the right to believe they were on the same team, but that doesn't mean everyone knew everyone who was involved. I know that there were backups for almost everything going on. . . . I have speculated, and grieve that many of my speculations have been reported as my recollection of hard facts or events. It's shameful to see deliberate misquotes as if my speculations were hard facts. I have the right to speculate where I do not know hard facts, just as anybody else." "So remember, where I wrote that Lee and Plumlee were on the 'same' abort team, that was reasonably based on what I knew then --and what I also learned in very recent years. Plumlee had no need to know a thing about Lee Oswald's involvement, unless Lee reached the plane, or if they managed to meet otherwise." "Then, it would have been an advantage for someone like Plumlee to be able to recognize Lee. It is, in fact, interesting that Tosh would have been able to recognize Lee Oswald, of all people, if Lee had come into contact with him that day, at Dealey Plaza or elsewhere. And having previously known Lee, that would have facilitated Tosh's ability to react to Lee's presence appropriately, I would think, should a meeting have occurred. For all I know, it might have been one of the reasons Tosh was selected to participate. Just my opinion. Just my speculation. Don't take this as more than that. So do you all have the same right."

161. Judyth Vary Baker, Facebook post, October 5, 2013: "Lee was part of an abort team--or so he was told. Tosh Plumlee was also involved in an abort team, though both of them might have been lied to."

162. Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Forum post, October 13, 2004: "I also know that Lee did not expect the assassination to occur at Dealey Plaza but, rather, at the Trade Mart, or even at the Johnson airstrip."

163. Judyth Vary Baker, Facebook post, August 26, 2014: "...the accusation that I had nothing to say,nothing to add, ran mostly from 1999 until 2003...and it did not sit well with Jim Marrs, because when he interviewed me, late 1999, i [sic] mentioned LEE JOINED AN ABORT TEAM. At that time, that information was unknown, but of course lee [sic] told me--and here in facebook [sic], a member of that Abort team is still alive and kicking--Tosh Plumlee."

164. Judyth Vary Baker, "Before the Silence Came: Lee's Last Telephone Calls," circulated draft of chapter for Deadly Alliance. Mafia: Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, Deadly Alliance: Outline of the Conspiracy.

165. Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Forum post, October 13, 2004: "I also know that Lee did not expect the assassination to occur at Dealey Plaza but, rather, at the Trade Mart, or even at the Johnson airstrip."

166. Judyth Vary Baker, Lee Harvey Oswald: The True Story of the Accused Assassin of President John F. Kennedy by His Lover (Victoria, British Columbia: Trafford Publishing, 2006), p. 625.

167. Judyth Vary Baker, Me & Lee: How I Came to Know, Love and Lose Lee Harvey Oswald (Waterville, Oregon: Trine Day LLC, 2010), p. 515. See also Judyth Vary Baker, Lee Harvey Oswald: The True Story of the Accused Assassin of President John F. Kennedy by His Lover (Victoria, British Columbia: Trafford Publishing, 2006), p. 519.

168. Jim Fetzer (with Judyth Vary Baker), "JFK: Judyth Vary Baker cements [sic] Oswald in the Doorway," May 1, 2015.

169. Judyth Baker, email to Louis T. Girdler, CC'ed to Howard Platzman, May 2, 2000: "My CIA-associated records were expunged by Pres. Reagan during an amnesty period. It was done FOR me [emphasis in original] and I was apprised of it, after I aided Reagan in Houston, in 1981, concerning a death threat made to him by a chiropractor. The felon was arrested at HIA with a gun in hand. At the time, I was working for a psychiatrist, dr. james Syuart [sic] of Hauser Clinic, and learned of the death threat through the chirpractor's [sic] wife (I then called the FBI)." Judyth Baker, email to Louis T. Girdler, Howard Platzman, Martin Shackelford, and two other recipients, May 5, 2000: "I had a 201, I suppose, but it was probably 'expunged' according to a telephone call I rec'd during a period of amnesty, about 1982-3"

170. Judyth Baker, "The oswald connection JVB-178," manuscript excerpt posted to deepsecrets newsgroup by Shadow-It, September 17, 2006: "During this time, an interesting event occurred. A chiropractor who hated Ronald Reagan held a gun to the head of his wife all night. She escaped by morning light, and came to Hauser Clinic, where she gave me a deposition so that her husband could be arrested before he went through with his intended plan of meeting President Reagan at the airport and gunning him down. I contacted the FBI ,and [sic] apparently the Doctor of Chiropracty was indeed located at the airport shortly before Ronald Ragan left the plane. The chiropractor, who had a long history of mental illness, was carrying a loaded gun. I read that he was sent to some Army base, to a stockade, perhaps in North or South Caroline (I never kept the news item). A few years later, I wrote the President and told him that it was I who had tipped off the FBI, but I never received a response. I have always felt it made up for anything I might have been expected to do when Lee told me that Kennedy was 'a dead man.'"

171. Press release, "TrineDay author, Judyth Vary Baker, an Eyewitness, Recently Spoke Out to Help Identify Man in Historic Photograph that is Center of Controversy about Ted Cruz’s Father Rafael," May 10, 2016:

 

The April 20, 2016, National Enquirer’s claim that Rafael Cruz was with Lee Harvey Oswald in a photo taken in front of the International Trade Mart in New Orleans on August 16, 1963 stirred controversy in the Republican Presidential Primary and across the Internet. It also prompted an eyewitness to speak up. Rafael Cruz is the father of U.S. Senator Ted Cruz. Lee Harvey Oswald was later accused of assassinating President Kennedy in Dallas.

After seeing the National Enquirer article, author Judyth Vary Baker was interviewed by Kris Millegan, the publisher at TrineDay, about what she personally saw and heard that day. "I saw Rafaolo with Lee in front of the ITM. I was no more than 6 feet from him and saw him clearly, but I did not know his last name. Lee only told me his name was 'Rafaolo,' and that he was there to watch Lee's back in the event there was trouble. The cover story was that Lee hired Rafaolo to help hand out FPCC flyers, but he was really there for Lee's protection. Lee also told me that both he and Rafaolo pretended to be pro-Castro to flush out Castro sympathizers for ex-FBI agent Guy Banister," said Judyth Vary Baker in an interview with her publisher Kris Millegan this week.

Judyth detailed her relationship with Lee Harvey Oswald in her 2010 autobiography "ME & LEE: How I came to know, love and lose Lee Harvey Oswald." Lee and Judyth both worked at the Reily Coffee Company in New Orleans in 1963. Lee found an apartment for Judyth and helped her get her job at the coffee company. They both started working there on May 10th, and they rode the same bus to and from work together on a daily basis. By August 16th, both had been fired from Reily, but continued to see each other and to work together on a secret anti-Castro project with several New Orleans doctors. Her comments about Rafaolo are new.

"The other time I saw Rafaolo" Judyth told Millegan, "was when Lee and I were walking through Lafayette Park near Banister's office. Lee spotted Rafaolo and said, 'There goes Rafael the Archangel.' That's when Lee told me that Rafaolo was one of the Cubans whose parents were still in Cuba, so Lee could not trust him because Castro might be able to pressure Rafaolo into spying by threatening his parents."

Millegan said "We were very familiar with that photo long before the National Enquirer broke the Rafael Cruz article. It's from the Warren Commission, and we have used it in three books. One of our authors, Chauncey Holt, was even in the same photo and identified two of the other men in his book which said that these men were working with him as part of the CIA's Operation Mongoose which armed anti-Castro Cuban groups."

The photos in question were taken by WDSU-TV on August 16, 1963. In the following days, Oswald appeared on several radio talk shows on WDSU radio.

 

Sting operation: Judyth Vary Baker, Facebook post, May 3, 2016: "In short, Cruz' father was involved in an anti-Castro sting operation."

172. Judyth Vary Baker, Me & Lee: How I Came to Know, Love and Lose Lee Harvey Oswald (Waterville, Oregon: Trine Day LLC, 2010), p. 453: the man in question was simply one of "two paid helpers." Martin Shackelford, Facebook post, December 19, 2016: "He [Oswald] hired two guys from the employment agency, Dave, as ;you [sic] probably already know. She didn't know them."

173. Judyth Vary Baker, Lee Harvey Oswald: The True Story of the Accused Assassin of President John F. Kennedy by His Lover (Victoria, British Columbia: Trafford Publishing, 2006), p. 494. Judyth writes that Oswald hired "aspiring FBI agents" to help him, "so he wouldn't have to worry about their talking about the demonstration later to anybody, or that would be the end of their hopes for an FBI career." One of the men was identified in 1963 as Charles Steele, Jr. Judyth mentions Steele by name several times, but never names the man she would later tell a more interesting story about. The man later identified as "Rafael" is pictured on p. 495.

174. Judyth Vary Baker, Facebook post, May 11, 2016: "Nobody ever asked me about him [the man she identifies as Cruz] before." National Enquirer: see endnote 162.

175. Martin Shackelford, Facebook post, December 19, 2016: "He [Oswald] hired two guys from the employment agency, Dave, as ;you [sic] probably already know. She didn't know them." This was in response to my question, "In any of the years you knew and communicated with Judyth, did you ever ask her about Oswald's unidentified helper?"

176. Judyth Vary Baker, Facebook post, December 28, 2016.

177. Judyth Vary Baker, biographical blurb posted at Manatee High School alumni website: "Lee Oswald and I worked together for the CIA in an anti-Castro project which included delivery of live biological weapons into Cuba, one of them aimed to kill Castro. Not only was Oswald an innocent man, he was framed in Dallas. . . . I really don't expect you to believe any of this without documentation and proof. Don't be concerned: I've got the proof. . . . I have my defenders and I've been able to prove everything I'm saying." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, May 7, 2004: ". . . WHEN ONE HAS BEEN TRAINED AS A SCIENTIST, AND THEY HAVE WRITTEN AND REVIEWED AND READ MANY PAPERS, GENERALLY THEY ARE AWARE THAT IF THEY MAKE A STATEMENT, THERE HAD BETTER BE BACK-UP. SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT TRAINED IN THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD MAY NOT REALIZE THIS RESPONSIBILITY. I TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE OR BACK-UP FOR MY STATEMENTS SERIOUSLY. MU [sic] HAVING BEEN TRAINED IN THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD MEANS THAT I AM PARTICULARLY SENSITIVE TO THE ISSUE OF PROOF AND DOCUMENTATION." Judyth Vary Baker, JFKresearch.com post, November 2, 2002: ". . . I can prove every word i [sic] am writing here--- i [sic] can assure you that what we were doing was trying to create a biological weapon to get castro [sic] inn [sic] what would seem to be a natural death."

178. Martin Shackelford, Internet forum post, August 28, 2004: Shackelford describes evidence supporting some of Judyth's claims, but admits she has only her word for those details of her story related to the Kennedy assassination: "As for the JFK conspiracy material, that's credible if she knew Oswald, as she's repeating what he told her." Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "I, myself, provide witness that Lee Oswald was innocent of John F. Kennedy's assassination, since he expressed to me his potent grief and anger over the plot. I presented proof of having known Lee Oswald well enough that it was reasonable to assume that he might have confided these matters to me. In fact, he did so. . . . [R]ead the book."

Judyth Vary Baker, JFK Lancer Research Forum post, October 13, 2004: "One final comment: the many typographical errors were due to writing hasty emails for private reading only. Plus, later, after my concussion(s), I had difficulty writing at all, and until lately, I had severe eye problems. Lately, eye exercises have helped, and I am seeing better for longer periods of time. There are now fewer typos. Of course, had I known that Mr. Reitzes was going to place 'sic' after every typo, I would have used a spell check. He says he has released this information because he has been upset with my conduct. Pray, what have I done to cause him to break his word to keep my emails private and confidential?I [sic] suggest that NOBODY EVER trust Mr. Reitzes with private and confidential information." "Anyone who carefully reads the let's-pretend list of 'contradictions' Mr. Reitzes has thrown together should be able to discern that this is a house of cards. Of his 51 citations and objections, only ONE inconsistency, my saying Guy Banister was not involved with the CIA when, in fact, he was? but even here, I only meant Banister was not a CIA agent?. [ellipses as in original] Only ONE point of 51 has any merit as to inconsistency. The rest is a farce, as anyone with eyes can see here for himself or herself.

"The very length, and lack of real substance, to Mr. Reitzes'objections [sic], exhaust the reader and almost extinguish any natural curiosity a reader might have. Perhaps Mr. Reitzes believed that nobody would bother reading this mass of masterial [sic], but would simply decide, by its very bulk and mass, that 'he must have something.' To wend through this maze is like plowing through foam and vapors. I apologize for all the obfuscations and clouds of mist raised by Mr. Reitzes." "WHERE IS THE SUBSTANCE? WHERE IS THE BEEF? WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE THAT I AM NOT TELLING THE TRUTH? THIS IS THE BEST THIS MAN CAN DO? HE IS IN POSSESSION OF HUNDREDS OF PAGES OF CORRESPONDENCE, IN POSSESSION OF PROBABLY A THOUSAND PAGES OF INFORMATION. AND THIS IS THE RESULT?"

 

 

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